1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
|
Return-Path: <john@synonym.to>
Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136])
by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6527EC002D
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 13 Dec 2022 09:59:50 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C8BB60D72
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 13 Dec 2022 09:59:50 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 2C8BB60D72
Authentication-Results: smtp3.osuosl.org;
dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=synonym-to.20210112.gappssmtp.com
header.i=@synonym-to.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.a=rsa-sha256
header.s=20210112 header.b=ja6z7nXE
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.897
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001,
SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id rsyqiDjo61Co
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 13 Dec 2022 09:59:49 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org C58BD60A8C
Received: from mail-il1-x134.google.com (mail-il1-x134.google.com
[IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::134])
by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C58BD60A8C
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 13 Dec 2022 09:59:48 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-il1-x134.google.com with SMTP id s16so4755558iln.4
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 13 Dec 2022 01:59:48 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=synonym-to.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112;
h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version
:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=QeKcJUNDRKhQVA/VtgRYNDwXxfa/l57epbrymq3OOU4=;
b=ja6z7nXEfOiEuUKPsbSWVePtB32r1iQe25FFe5PQFjwE8aPl7NX9WXIeGwXyvABW/G
2F94BIv3AdaQtrr69q1T0qP9MIA3ydJTVLL9bS6lI7GfMqZsdh2Hd6xR01Xqcz5zdn+X
vosZn99ZHd7BZEu9zwmNok/y9Q/3Rm5jmVezoYC1yXobTfgJP4tcGQYV7T9nkQiMrOn5
TaslJq2895b8f2i/ZhVumLgOtkWcqfjTvln0yfSxCTc0pIrzqnZWR3LyB4MMktAjU8aQ
pBjM9td5ayNRHrfypjZvuMPChZicf2n52IEcWoM29FXYDNukgSl3X10kvgS8w7LZ44oo
+cEA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20210112;
h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version
:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=QeKcJUNDRKhQVA/VtgRYNDwXxfa/l57epbrymq3OOU4=;
b=fn+u/KDsjXgwVdYA3hUloFv7uE+idtE++tlfellABAySSazPHhBsB2NV/7/stK0RbH
b2RDh3f1rDRG4MJ+klLexnJHVPmW3hX/2abHaUizGGS9AVdPSzTF5ERR166qJVuLcbTo
5OkkElg6AQw0rPelK122a6z3sHg5+qUqztJ0YUGa7jcK5AWjGnZ09I4UJYmboWeewWol
9EOJc779w3tjJPcAuBr9D93SkzYEgIcOfc/vGNm1cn5diHyk+Dlr+w+Z/FL0lzhpkW/2
8LkmUvK2Oi9bo2Y7FvwSBJ3NJJuboiVIPtvsL+E9Rcu8lzyUZjwFOPikJrtV8vZh8rnK
9NHw==
X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pmw1+2CPFxiO9HfPxHkirJilm4NitdYmGpiMCUfiZUgBK9ifCeC
oqSMY1gaPO07/GlLslZy6sJYGJxYsyLgHtJqQFA7e4i+YZsu2wye
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf5tat+rypC6d3B8NA30CAZGKEnm4x6gjONTa8ckd9c69ijpjZQ2vZ6eOK3sjUhoYNp2pn99mu6G/vvw4D6FQnM=
X-Received: by 2002:a92:c5c3:0:b0:303:2713:815d with SMTP id
s3-20020a92c5c3000000b003032713815dmr19980919ilt.279.1670925587244; Tue, 13
Dec 2022 01:59:47 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CACkWPs_F94t9Q8TfyYYGxQANUT78SWFGkTOh6qRwnt=6ct7aig@mail.gmail.com>
<CAAQdECAspoRJRz7j1ubAe=Cen==AVF5bm-Q2=0TiKc7NtbU65A@mail.gmail.com>
<CACkWPs_4pjTo50=S86KPEznBs0PU7rd30rBGHq2Q5=6n6hYMgQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CACkWPs_4pjTo50=S86KPEznBs0PU7rd30rBGHq2Q5=6n6hYMgQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: John Carvalho <john@synonym.to>
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 09:59:36 +0000
Message-ID: <CAHTn92wH17Z+p5cFOLpzsVUuTf4-nZc7tOjQr+_xjSU5groa0Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daniel Lipshitz <daniel@gap600.com>,
bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000013069c05efb2ae57"
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 13:07:59 +0000
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A proposal for Full RBF to not exclude Zero Conf
use case
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 09:59:50 -0000
--00000000000013069c05efb2ae57
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Why wasn't this solution put in place back then? Are there problems with
the design?
While I still think there are unhealthy side-effects of Full-RBF (like more
doublespending at unknowing merchants, after years of FSS protection) I
think discussion of this FSS-RBF feature is worth considering.
--
John Carvalho
CEO, Synonym.to <http://synonym.to/>
On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 8:09 AM Daniel Lipshitz <daniel@gap600.com> wrote:
> Thank you for bringing that to my attention, apologies for not being aware
> of it.
>
> First-seen-safe replace-by-fee as detailed here
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html
> by Peter Todd seems to be a very suitable option and route
> which balances FullRBF while retaining the significant 0-conf use case.
>
> This would seem like a good way forward.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 6:20 AM Yuval Kogman <nothingmuch@woobling.org>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html
>>
>
--00000000000013069c05efb2ae57
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Why wasn't this solution put in=C2=A0place back then? =
Are there problems with the design?<div><br></div><div>While I still think =
there are unhealthy side-effects of Full-RBF (like more doublespending at u=
nknowing=C2=A0merchants, after years of FSS protection) I think discussion =
of this FSS-RBF feature is worth considering.</div><div><br clear=3D"all"><=
div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_sign=
ature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">--</span><br st=
yle=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">=
<div dir=3D"ltr">John Carvalho</div><div dir=3D"ltr">CEO,=C2=A0<a href=3D"h=
ttp://synonym.to/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank">Synonym=
.to</a><br><div><font size=3D"1"><br></font></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_attr">On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 8:09 AM Daniel Lipshitz <<a href=3D"m=
ailto:daniel@gap600.com">daniel@gap600.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you for br=
inging that to my attention, apologies for not being aware of it.<div><br><=
/div><div>First-seen-safe replace-by-fee as detailed here=C2=A0<a href=3D"h=
ttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pi=
permail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html</a>=C2=A0 by Peter Todd=C2=A0<span=
style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>seems to be a very=
suitable option and route which=C2=A0balances FullRBF while retaining=C2=
=A0 the significant=C2=A00-conf use case.</div><div><br></div><div>This wou=
ld seem like a good way forward.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><b=
r><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px">________________________________</div><div style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 6:20 AM Yuval Kogman =
<<a href=3D"mailto:nothingmuch@woobling.org" target=3D"_blank">nothingmu=
ch@woobling.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex"><a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitco=
in-dev/2015-May/008248.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://l=
ists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
--00000000000013069c05efb2ae57--
|
