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Cc: Bitcoin Development <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] New BIP32 structure
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Ah, BIP32 allows for a range of entropy sizes and it so happens that they
picked 256 bits instead of 128 bits.
I'd have thought that there is a right answer for this. 2^128 should not be
brute forceable, and longer sizes have a cost in terms of making the seeds
harder to write down on paper. So should this be a degree of freedom?
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
> By the way, I just noticed that greenaddress.it is creating seeds that
> have 24 words instead of 12. Does anyone know what's up with that? They
> claim to be using BIP32 wallets so I wanted to see if they were using the
> default structure and if so, whether bitcoinj was compatible with it
> (before I switch to the one discussed here). But it seems we fall at the
> first hurdle ...
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Thomas Voegtlin <thomasv1@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Le 27/03/2014 12:30, Marek Palatinus a =C3=A9crit :
>> > Ah, I forget to two things, which should be into the BIP as well:
>> >
>> > a) Gap factor for addresses; as Thomas mentioned, although some softwa=
re
>> > can watch almost unlimited amount of unused addresses, this is serious
>> > concern for lightweight or server-based wallets like Electrum or
>> > myTREZOR. myTREZOR currently uses gap factor 10, which is (from my
>> > experience so far) quite sane for most of users.
>>
>>
>> Yes, I was planning to increase the number of available unused addresses
>> to 10 or 20 in the bip32 version of Electrum.
>>
>> Related to this, here is another idea I would like to submit:
>>
>> Instead of using a "gap limit" (maximal number of consecutive unused
>> addresses), I think we should get rid of the topology, and simply count
>> the number of unused addresses since the beginning of the sequence.
>> Indeed, the topology of the sequence of addresses is of no interest to
>> the user. Users often misinterpret "gap limit" as the "number of unused
>> addresses available", so I think we should just give them what they want
>> :) This is easier to understand, and it makes things more predictable,
>> because the wallet will always display the same number of unused
>> addresses (except when it is waiting for confirmations).
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Ah, BIP32 allows for a range of entropy sizes and it so ha=
ppens that they picked 256 bits instead of 128 bits.<div><br></div><div>I&#=
39;d have thought that there is a right answer for this. 2^128 should not b=
e brute forceable, and longer sizes have a cost in terms of making the seed=
s harder to write down on paper. So should this be a degree of freedom?</di=
v>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu,=
Mar 27, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Mike Hearn <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailt=
o:mike@plan99.net" target=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.net</a>></span> wrote:<=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">By the way, I just noticed that <a href=3D"http://greenadd=
ress.it" target=3D"_blank">greenaddress.it</a> is creating seeds that have =
24 words instead of 12. Does anyone know what's up with that? They clai=
m to be using BIP32 wallets so I wanted to see if they were using the defau=
lt structure and if so, whether bitcoinj was compatible with it (before I s=
witch to the one discussed here). But it seems we fall at the first hurdle =
...</div>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 2=
7, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Thomas Voegtlin <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto=
:thomasv1@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">thomasv1@gmx.de</a>></span> wrote:<b=
r><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
Le 27/03/2014 12:30, Marek Palatinus a =C3=A9crit :<br>
> Ah, I forget to two things, which should be into the BIP as well:<br>
><br>
> a) Gap factor for addresses; as Thomas mentioned, although some softwa=
re<br>
> can watch almost unlimited amount of unused addresses, this is serious=
<br>
> concern for lightweight or server-based wallets like Electrum or<br>
> myTREZOR. myTREZOR currently uses gap factor 10, which is (from my<br>
> experience so far) quite sane for most of users.<br>
<br>
<br>
Yes, I was planning to increase the number of available unused addresses<br=
>
to 10 or 20 in the bip32 version of Electrum.<br>
<br>
Related to this, here is another idea I would like to submit:<br>
<br>
Instead of using a "gap limit" (maximal number of consecutive unu=
sed<br>
addresses), I think we should get rid of the topology, and simply count<br>
the number of unused addresses since the beginning of the sequence.<br>
Indeed, the topology of the sequence of addresses is of no interest to<br>
the user. Users often misinterpret "gap limit" as the "numbe=
r of unused<br>
addresses available", so I think we should just give them what they wa=
nt<br>
:) This is easier to understand, and it makes things more predictable,<br>
because the wallet will always display the same number of unused<br>
addresses (except when it is waiting for confirmations).<br>
<div><div><br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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