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References: <9FAA7EEC-BD22-491E-B21B-732AEA15F556@sprovoost.nl> <7c28f8e9-d221-4633-8b71-53b4db07fa78@schildbach.de>
In-Reply-To: <7c28f8e9-d221-4633-8b71-53b4db07fa78@schildbach.de>
From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 06:44:35 +0100
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Message-ID: <CAKaEYhLuQDMKXaVhbQ2BrwHdHg7zPBiO-NgH6GhACufoqR2T4A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Does anyone still need testnet3?
To: Andreas Schildbach <google.com@schildbach.de>
Cc: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl>, 
	Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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p=C3=A1 14. 3. 2025 v 14:01 odes=C3=ADlatel 'Andreas Schildbach' via Bitcoi=
n
Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> napsal:

> Hi Sjors,
>
> thanks for asking.
>
> Bitcoinj has just started to implement testnet4, but it's not finished
> yet. And the next version 0.18 will probably not be released within 12
> months, maybe longer.
>
> By the way, testnet3 works great for us (for testing). I consider block
> storms a feature, because it tests our code in rough conditions. We had
> planned to support both testnets in the forseeable future.
>
> https://github.com/bitcoinj/bitcoinj/
>
> Then, there is btc-rpc-explorer, a self-hostable block explorer. It
> doesn't yet support testnet4. I'm not affiliated to it, I'm just a user.
>
> https://github.com/janoside/btc-rpc-explorer


Main issue with testnet3 is getting coins for developers to use it,
especially with high fees.

A neat idea might be to make an app to swap between testnet3 and testnet4
coins.  Or even an AMM.

If there's a decent amount of interest in this, I could give it a go.


>
>
> Cheers,
> Andreas
>
>
> On 14/03/2025 09.52, Sjors Provoost wrote:
> > Dear list,
> >
> > Testnet 4 was proposed last year in BIP94 [0] and is supported by
> Bitcoin Core since v28.
> >
> > To make Bitcoin Core easier to maintain we would like to drop support
> for Testnet3 in a future release. This will happen no earlier than v30 th=
is
> fall. The upcoming v29 release still supports it, and will throughout its
> maintenance period [1].
> >
> > The network itself can't be deleted, so anyone willing to maintain node
> software themselves can keep using testnet3 until the end of time.
> >
> > One of the motivations for introducing testnet4 was that testnet3 becam=
e
> increasing impractical to use due to block storms. So perhaps everyone
> already moved on to using testnet4 or a signet.
> >
> > As an aside, it's possible to create a pure proof-of-work permissionles=
s
> signet without any signatures, by setting the challenge to OP_TRUE. [2]
> >
> > However, if anyone is still using testnet3 and needs more time to move
> away from it, please let us know. E.g. as a reply to the list or a commen=
t
> on the Github issue [3]. This could include libraries, staging
> environments, testnet wallets, etc.
> >
> > Although the v29 maintenance window will last for a few years, it's als=
o
> important to know if dropping testnet3 would prevent you from upgrading t=
o
> the next major node version. In other words, if migrating away from
> testnet3 would take you longer than all of 2025.
> >
> > Although "I don't feel like it" isn't a great technical argument, it's
> still useful to know what to expect and perhaps others can help.
> >
> > - Sjors
> >
> > [0] https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0094.mediawiki
> > [1] https://bitcoincore.org/en/lifecycle/#maintenance-period
> > [2]
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0325.mediawiki#specificat=
ion
> > [3] https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31975
> >
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7c28f8e9-d221-4633-8b71-53b4=
db07fa78%40schildbach.de
> .
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote g=
mail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">p=C3=A1 14. 3. =
2025 v=C2=A014:01 odes=C3=ADlatel &#39;Andreas Schildbach&#39; via Bitcoin =
Development Mailing List &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com"=
>bitcoindev@googlegroups.com</a>&gt; napsal:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Sjors,<br>
<br>
thanks for asking.<br>
<br>
Bitcoinj has just started to implement testnet4, but it&#39;s not finished =
<br>
yet. And the next version 0.18 will probably not be released within 12 <br>
months, maybe longer.<br>
<br>
By the way, testnet3 works great for us (for testing). I consider block <br=
>
storms a feature, because it tests our code in rough conditions. We had <br=
>
planned to support both testnets in the forseeable future.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoinj/bitcoinj/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">https://github.com/bitcoinj/bitcoinj/</a><br>
<br>
Then, there is btc-rpc-explorer, a self-hostable block explorer. It <br>
doesn&#39;t yet support testnet4. I&#39;m not affiliated to it, I&#39;m jus=
t a user.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://github.com/janoside/btc-rpc-explorer" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/janoside/btc-rpc-explorer</a></blockq=
uote><div><br></div><div>Main issue with testnet3 is getting coins for deve=
lopers to use it, especially with high fees.</div><div><br></div><div>A nea=
t idea might be to make an app to swap between testnet3 and testnet4 coins.=
=C2=A0 Or even an AMM.</div><div><br></div><div>If there&#39;s a decent amo=
unt of interest in this, I could give it a go.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Andreas<br>
<br>
<br>
On 14/03/2025 09.52, Sjors Provoost wrote:<br>
&gt; Dear list,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Testnet 4 was proposed last year in BIP94 [0] and is supported by Bitc=
oin Core since v28.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; To make Bitcoin Core easier to maintain we would like to drop support =
for Testnet3 in a future release. This will happen no earlier than v30 this=
 fall. The upcoming v29 release still supports it, and will throughout its =
maintenance period [1].<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The network itself can&#39;t be deleted, so anyone willing to maintain=
 node software themselves can keep using testnet3 until the end of time.<br=
>
&gt; <br>
&gt; One of the motivations for introducing testnet4 was that testnet3 beca=
me increasing impractical to use due to block storms. So perhaps everyone a=
lready moved on to using testnet4 or a signet.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; As an aside, it&#39;s possible to create a pure proof-of-work permissi=
onless signet without any signatures, by setting the challenge to OP_TRUE. =
[2]<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; However, if anyone is still using testnet3 and needs more time to move=
 away from it, please let us know. E.g. as a reply to the list or a comment=
 on the Github issue [3]. This could include libraries, staging environment=
s, testnet wallets, etc.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Although the v29 maintenance window will last for a few years, it&#39;=
s also important to know if dropping testnet3 would prevent you from upgrad=
ing to the next major node version. In other words, if migrating away from =
testnet3 would take you longer than all of 2025.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Although &quot;I don&#39;t feel like it&quot; isn&#39;t a great techni=
cal argument, it&#39;s still useful to know what to expect and perhaps othe=
rs can help.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; - Sjors<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [0] <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0094.me=
diawiki" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/bitcoin/bi=
ps/blob/master/bip-0094.mediawiki</a><br>
&gt; [1] <a href=3D"https://bitcoincore.org/en/lifecycle/#maintenance-perio=
d" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://bitcoincore.org/en/lifecycl=
e/#maintenance-period</a><br>
&gt; [2] <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0325.me=
diawiki#specification" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.=
com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0325.mediawiki#specification</a><br>
&gt; [3] <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31975" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31=
975</a><br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
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