1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
|
Delivery-date: Tue, 15 Jul 2025 15:04:51 -0700
Received: from mail-qt1-f192.google.com ([209.85.160.192])
by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
(Exim 4.94.2)
(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBCBOPKOL54MRB6NA3PBQMGQERP2S76Q@googlegroups.com>)
id 1ubnlb-0008H1-4B
for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Tue, 15 Jul 2025 15:04:51 -0700
Received: by mail-qt1-f192.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4ab7077ad49sf5653851cf.1
for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Tue, 15 Jul 2025 15:04:50 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1752617085; cv=pass;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=V6Q192/8Q4DkeUD4GsYFz5FsmFXTMaA/MblePYEpb8qFMUR9nIkGr+2K3pW6bHEtFh
5vjdDwu4vzDvR2NJP4CjFRXiyLX0tqRklJLj3AqEQxDY6hHIN08FWmi0f97epFJTugfR
YZIfXbw2EEe20m6skrwcXMRJXgJ11huLFjmDkNtmRGz+VznIkk/Wah+Y9Nx5QNAfZj+B
hbAAmNFJsko2QIZVdxlOorddt99hjO1Yl8OG+HjdtRECudHg2ijNLTmfv9VoVkJZuFNm
ZzqTdHV9OWPVeWMTmPZow76rLLYN2YIrz5Ey0XEdNLBbRJZaYGRfeO2G63Xh7NdBUy7i
NpBw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:content-transfer-encoding
:in-reply-to:from:content-language:references:to:subject:user-agent
:mime-version:date:message-id:sender:dkim-signature;
bh=chD583S/IvwizwQEqIkbP+ew3lQvJ7f6hMof2cb/xAg=;
fh=phsQQdKN3mN3+y/TqaQHlOJRmIMXj8exVlV68+xalaU=;
b=A3jn77QXSKVA0RQEeObIyEPJdO1OB3t5y/dH8DM5B2ul3isIjyycMp7iI1AZOePMT8
/K6SlG/WUUX0m/uYKBGX7mR8De7RYckOtyWo3aGnSm3tmWj+yiqAcK7KWvo2ZOx6fX2w
AhIFQxfqiJ9vhQ5SsDWAwXxA6YOao35ikv6VBRNkM0Xl53Uu4g/9fCI3K3eTJMuRJeKe
oPbs5r8GjG6S6x8brMnKxNo9p55QkU5+qiiVPpo2V6r3zGJLs+ysjwFD/pRx5xaOvbYM
1mWI9rVXR5wKpqXnOklEFXzrB5avUX28855rCtsmmUr7+d5PKFz+mmZkpwY8/f84nHOW
Bxfw==;
darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@murch.one header.s=uberspace header.b=Ft3JXb1l;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of murch@murch.one designates 185.26.156.114 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=murch@murch.one
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1752617085; x=1753221885; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from
:content-language:references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date
:message-id:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=chD583S/IvwizwQEqIkbP+ew3lQvJ7f6hMof2cb/xAg=;
b=i8AYpm+B/euIHED6uD/xWWjdk51eY9ph/FS9Eh4rCnKY0s+A3rvRssxkDNDwa2993G
Lp0NCWXtqxwpQ/awjk9KL4T/ELvmgeOhQcUsUCUu1hGMe0OQ1SxxJRt8TSqr4zOuGx0k
KNvhgFBmonMJHYP7YFAHeRDtppEIva/Wsc+aThSOv8Pr6pPEOzLiFAEhsytzTQXWvlAF
7S10Ho33LpQkR1IhsURQbuNy+twxwN5nSr77SReoinLQXTzjRZjAbdCVMbRqbFITddGz
WB1/b13W66RvyEb799k2qRo9nSum9M7d38DSkxDX216NzgdFMWdD5t9Mzi2Pd2aPR9je
lBng==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1752617085; x=1753221885;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from
:content-language:references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date
:message-id:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject
:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=chD583S/IvwizwQEqIkbP+ew3lQvJ7f6hMof2cb/xAg=;
b=t2KTis1TiIqofE7UB0mbAz4bIndEOVrXQcO+rXC2JCHLNtkmHyYr2KcmPblS8sgU3m
SwJG8wobueVxwFkivkbBNUSZAC6k9wuiNhJvmJCyQ9aBMfrfq/Lxqw3ikEAM7rVr2XXu
2HRGlB7tnEPcIjreDF+TukAVBZs2RdrVS3q5muSWqAVYG9HOCBigEK+2/0L+Nwz2JTrA
p2C568t7IHVc/vPQDVUQTZbw82GC8rrQiC/fYQnlvLLqJGDklX4vNT5FPv3oS3yETH/A
KzNeuhzh90nHfiQcKTp6Befj/VSRhihs01YSoO96blVYXHVEUipbL/VdMhVV6qAs5Gut
2cgA==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWdop5GwgxdLT6VXpQ+zVZDBcVsLK4LwPiHvY1kh8U5ReJUPQEa6Vrv8h0EIoFx89faSdTMK4n1/PqR@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxRCqaBU+MyB4W9+uuQ3SOKHyJ9tC1eBzBi+oi3N35MXkOP9mvG
UhT2T4hlBc3HxjGkdo7a7o5GQiv1Wazr/Xg0l3wK/6Pxn0wg6g3w37dP
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEBvpQZJUBRF9IGgdtMQH+c8Z0qJOq/l7z82eIwJBGZkWE4PIilotmyMZtG4g3WnPydst3IrQ==
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5883:0:b0:4ab:5331:a547 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4ab90cb1b47mr6427201cf.12.1752617084619;
Tue, 15 Jul 2025 15:04:44 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=AZMbMZdaOwLL+9digTYuXQ0o4lY98gmPzkuDqiD3+Ac60+88Vg==
Received: by 2002:ac8:6f1a:0:b0:4aa:fbf6:4243 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4ab90b0cb89ls2051351cf.2.-pod-prod-00-us-canary;
Tue, 15 Jul 2025 15:04:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:269b:b0:7e3:2e12:19d8 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7e34293f56cmr132819585a.17.1752617080923;
Tue, 15 Jul 2025 15:04:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 2002:a05:6504:980d:b0:2b1:97ca:fe9d with SMTP id a1c4a302cd1d6-2ba15bc185amsc7a;
Tue, 15 Jul 2025 15:02:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:145a:20b0:553:3446:beda with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-55a2338944fmr314180e87.35.1752616929516;
Tue, 15 Jul 2025 15:02:09 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1752616929; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=dSA2agP7bgl2HFiTOywO9/T/Up+DSFVBH1oz7o8LT0TqSk+XU3/+PXpKk96aKYdlMA
DILEVlxRyu+3s+rYFAESTLBmiGiJ69HnoKG5JatQPZ7r83f3YvJPHNRx0/vWpzycN0K9
NZ6bJWYfiv/DRcaEKNwV3XvpfO6c5+faJ/FOrAnV7jW0EnYqiFe8OBror3YdBusvz41l
TJCRw6sXmarokt0MCT4WiPbazf53ioYYpYESvBN2Q0SF1iZGJdMTOraDiE1movjY2J9e
AT9NFl5NfhNvFKd+HRaR9SROfgVyKPGwHEQpH3pDYPMAuG4abqmKFgLvl4C+X6bN+Fhg
aLgg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=dkim-signature:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from
:content-language:references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date
:message-id;
bh=LKUkC5M8MYpm7zUdYgY2wEkgA2wv6WY2pPBCByHQ7Dk=;
fh=VcGcg+Zjs9gw1uDcHbxsAILhBAcecnbJzZRdxgKVDIc=;
b=AMZRqCLEcZ5ePSpG1kACPJw7MJuaovhCam0VbyM+sdgTq+l/i5ITacveMlg1BO6uYG
HA7Qn5jGJNRyhohbdd+5q3TH4oIT8ua1Ge0E3UIP1IzjhEfAQ3xowr9h50WQzxHU6Frm
Qtz9F4usInaQqMuUe6BPBVRhboUDqvSvjGwa23+Bs0SmO4JsyAN49gKa4Fkca/uvRIFD
0+MtnBgvb3AWtoAucCDwEDwZrogVIXaOtNvkxAbaeu2vHYdIhO4x+eZIQvC5P3Pssuiz
6FYbFrO3wKHos9SBZ3nzaLcnXTbOAPwIesiRDsW4ZzDYBKfe0vmrKXmC3/sJ8rjFo6qq
NQ8g==;
dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@murch.one header.s=uberspace header.b=Ft3JXb1l;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of murch@murch.one designates 185.26.156.114 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=murch@murch.one
Received: from mailgate02.uberspace.is (mailgate02.uberspace.is. [185.26.156.114])
by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 2adb3069b0e04-5593c7f46c7si238067e87.3.2025.07.15.15.02.09
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
Tue, 15 Jul 2025 15:02:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of murch@murch.one designates 185.26.156.114 as permitted sender) client-ip=185.26.156.114;
Received: from farbauti.uberspace.de (farbauti.uberspace.de [185.26.156.235])
by mailgate02.uberspace.is (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1F331803EA
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>; Wed, 16 Jul 2025 00:02:07 +0200 (CEST)
Received: (qmail 13187 invoked by uid 989); 15 Jul 2025 22:02:07 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO unkown) (::1)
by farbauti.uberspace.de (Haraka/3.0.1) with ESMTPSA; Wed, 16 Jul 2025 00:02:07 +0200
Message-ID: <634ea7a6-1695-46e8-a337-1fef1ac17a66@murch.one>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2025 15:02:04 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [BIP Proposal] Proof-of-Activity Reclamation (PoAR)
To: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
References: <a186c724-eef7-4964-9aba-85ae9cce2249n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: en-US
From: Murch <murch@murch.one>
In-Reply-To: <a186c724-eef7-4964-9aba-85ae9cce2249n@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Rspamd-Bar: ---
X-Rspamd-Report: BAYES_HAM(-3) XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01) MIME_GOOD(-0.1)
X-Rspamd-Score: -3.09
X-Original-Sender: murch@murch.one
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass
header.i=@murch.one header.s=uberspace header.b=Ft3JXb1l; spf=pass
(google.com: domain of murch@murch.one designates 185.26.156.114 as permitted
sender) smtp.mailfrom=murch@murch.one
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
<https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/)
Hi Donald and all,
The idea of recycling dormant coins is one that has made the rounds=20
several times before, including in the form of the "Bitcoin Dormant=20
Recovery Proposal" just a couple months ago:=20
https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1852
I don=E2=80=99t have the impression that the idea has been particularly pop=
ular,=20
and as BIPs go, this one is missing crucial parts, e.g.:
=E2=80=A2 A more comprehensive motivation based on thorough analysis how=20
redistributing dormant coins improves the system as this constitutes a=20
departure of the status quo for the supply schedule
=E2=80=A2 Specification of the redistribution rate and mechanism
=E2=80=A2 Specification of the out-of-band activity proof mechanism and how=
this=20
out-of-band information would be introduced into the Bitcoin system as=20
consensus critical information, and discussion of alternative approaches=20
and why this is the correct approach
=E2=80=A2 Rationale for reclaiming dormant coins at halvings rather than UT=
XOs=20
expiring after a fixed number of blocks
=E2=80=A2 An analysis of the backward compatibility, including especially t=
he=20
discussion of how to conduct this hard fork
In its current state, I would consider this document premature for a=20
pull request and would encourage further development. Generally, the=20
arguments and reasoning used in the motivation and rationale will need a=20
lot more work to make a hard fork and a change in the economic paradigm=20
palatable.
Cheers,
Murch
On 2025-07-10 15:55, 'Donald Dienst' via Bitcoin Development Mailing=20
List wrote:
> Dear Bitcoin developers,
>
> I would like to propose a new BIP titled "Proof-of-Activity=20
> Reclamation (PoAR)," which aims to address the long-term economic=20
> effects of lost and abandoned UTXOs.
>
> This proposal introduces a fully automated and rule-based mechanism to=20
> gradually recycle coins that have been provably inactive for over 20=20
> years. These coins are returned to the undistributed pool and slowly=20
> reintroduced via future block rewards=E2=80=94extending miner incentives =
while=20
> respecting the 21 million BTC cap.
>
> You can view the full proposal here:
> https://gist.github.com/Brandchatz/56c39d289db9e56190c13922850815b8
>
> I welcome your thoughts, suggestions, and critiques.
>
> Best regards,
> Donald Dienst
> dddienst@protonmail.com --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20
> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send=20
> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit=20
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/a186c724-eef7-4964-9aba-85ae=
9cce2249n%40googlegroups.com=20
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/a186c724-eef7-4964-9aba-85a=
e9cce2249n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>.
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
634ea7a6-1695-46e8-a337-1fef1ac17a66%40murch.one.
|
