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Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2025 11:23:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Message-Id: <e0a46b30-e633-4f38-b737-a5f1973da901n@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: Workshops and Activation for CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY and CHECKSIGFROMSTACK
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Hi Floppy,

The call to review CTV has been published Jun. 9.

On this letter, I can count ~60 names.

Since the time of publication (2 months after), only 5 people have put a=20
code review comment on #31989.

Among the 5 people, only 2 were letter signatories (average-gary + stuxto).

Why the 58 other names on the letter have not spent _their_ _free_ time=20
reviewing more CTV code ?

...

Now, of course anyone is free to patch CTV on top of knot and go to try the=
=20
activation run with that.

Personally, I still think we should aim for more neutral consensus=20
development process...

This was the intent with the bitcoin contracting primitives WG, done on an=
=20
open IRC chan.

https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg (can transfer=
=20
you the repo ownership if you wish so)

Where rather to present a primitive proposal as a "done deal" from a "pow=
=20
wow" of experts,
the goal was to create a neutral online forum for discussion open to anyone=
=20
in the world
who self-estimate they qualify as an expert on bitcoin consensus...and=20
humbly trying to
do better than the mess of the 2015 - 2017 period w.r.t consensus changes.

Best,
Antoine
OTS hash: 0d3c23682b630c9c85288ece8e1acae2f4a3c76254e16e36ccb6ca0fcef2556b

Le lundi 18 ao=C3=BBt 2025 =C3=A0 15:43:54 UTC+1, /dev /fd0 a =C3=A9crit :

> Hi everyone,
>
> IRC channel: #ctv-csfs-activation on libera.chat
>
> I [requested][0] the economic nodes to review different soft fork=20
> proposals and share their opinion on 5 March 2025. Four entries were adde=
d=20
> to the [wiki][1] and nobody has any objections to the proposals. Some=20
> organizations do not want to publicly participate in this process to avoi=
d=20
> politics and drama.
>
> A [letter][2] was signed on 9 June 2025 by bitcoin developers to get more=
=20
> core contributors involved in the review process. It was followed by a=20
> [proposal][3] that makes a few changes to CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY and combine=
s=20
> it with CHECKSIGFROMSTACK. Personally, I don't like that TEMPLATEHASH is=
=20
> restricted to taproot and don't see anything wrong with=20
> CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY. However, other developers may disagree with me and=
=20
> have different opinion. I have created an IRC channel for workshops,=20
> meetings, activation, etc.=20
>
> We can finalize a meeting schedule so we can use the IRC channel to move=
=20
> closer to covenants activation on bitcoin.
>
> I think BIP 8 would be a better option for the next soft fork.=20
> [Previously][4], some suggestions were [rejected][5] because knots was no=
t=20
> used by a large number of users. However, things have changed since then=
=20
> and [~15%][6] of nodes use knots for bitcoin.
>
> [0]: https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/kd8g8V1NVOY/m/nE2y5V66AQAJ
> [1]: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Covenants_support
> [2]: https://ctv-csfs.com/
> [3]: https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/5wLThgegha4/m/iUWIZPIaCAAJ
> [4]:=20
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAFvNmHS4s_MbXP8o3kWmaUZ5...@mail.gmail.=
com/=20
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAFvNmHS4s_MbXP8o3kWmaUZ5Xks1b76jSDymp1=
Bjr--4R8_v3Q@mail.gmail.com/>
> [5]:=20
> https://diyhpl.us/cgit/pi-bitcoindev/plain/cc/877bbc8de83e7aa4d2252a0473d=
05d634946b4/dev/fd0
> [6]: https://bitnodes.io/nodes/?q=3Dknots#network-snapshot
>
> /dev/fd0
> floppy disk guy
>

--=20
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
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Hi Floppy,<br /><br />The call to review CTV has been published Jun. 9.<br =
/><br />On this letter, I can count ~60 names.<br /><br />Since the time of=
 publication (2 months after), only 5 people have put a code review comment=
 on #31989.<br /><br />Among the 5 people, only 2 were letter signatories (=
average-gary + stuxto).<br /><br />Why the 58 other names on the letter hav=
e not spent _their_ _free_ time reviewing more CTV code ?<br /><br />...<br=
 /><br />Now, of course anyone is free to patch CTV on top of knot and go t=
o try the activation run with that.<br /><br />Personally, I still think we=
 should aim for more neutral consensus development process...<br /><br />Th=
is was the intent with the bitcoin contracting primitives WG, done on an op=
en IRC chan.<br /><br />https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primi=
tives-wg (can transfer you the repo ownership if you wish so)<br /><br />Wh=
ere rather to present a primitive proposal as a "done deal" from a "pow wow=
" of experts,<br />the goal was to create a neutral online forum for discus=
sion open to anyone in the world<br />who self-estimate they qualify as an =
expert on bitcoin consensus...and humbly trying to<br />do better than the =
mess of the 2015 - 2017 period w.r.t consensus changes.<br /><br />Best,<br=
 />Antoine<br />OTS hash: 0d3c23682b630c9c85288ece8e1acae2f4a3c76254e16e36c=
cb6ca0fcef2556b<br /><br /><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" cla=
ss=3D"gmail_attr">Le lundi 18 ao=C3=BBt 2025 =C3=A0 15:43:54 UTC+1, /dev /f=
d0 a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-le=
ft: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi everyone,<br><br>IRC channel: #ctv-csfs-activ=
ation on libera.chat<br><br>I [requested][0] the economic nodes to review d=
ifferent soft fork proposals and share their opinion on 5 March 2025. Four =
entries were added to the [wiki][1] and nobody has any objections to the pr=
oposals. Some organizations do not want to publicly participate in this pro=
cess to avoid politics and drama.<br><br>A [letter][2] was signed on 9 June=
 2025 by bitcoin developers to get more core contributors involved in the r=
eview process. It was followed by a [proposal][3] that makes a few changes =
to CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY and combines it with CHECKSIGFROMSTACK. Personally, =
I don&#39;t like that TEMPLATEHASH is restricted to taproot and don&#39;t s=
ee anything wrong with CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY. However, other developers may d=
isagree with me and have different opinion. I have created an IRC channel f=
or workshops, meetings, activation, etc. <br><br>We can finalize a meeting =
schedule so we can use the IRC channel to move closer to covenants activati=
on on bitcoin.<br><br>I think BIP 8 would be a better option for the next s=
oft fork. [Previously][4], some suggestions were [rejected][5] because knot=
s was not used by a large number of users. However, things have changed sin=
ce then and [~15%][6] of nodes use knots for bitcoin.<br><br>[0]: <a href=
=3D"https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/kd8g8V1NVOY/m/nE2y5V66AQAJ" ta=
rget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google=
.com/url?hl=3Dfr&amp;q=3Dhttps://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/kd8g8V1NV=
OY/m/nE2y5V66AQAJ&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1755800495804000&amp;usg=3DA=
OvVaw3baxsPcuQBcra14ZK1LehY">https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/kd8g8=
V1NVOY/m/nE2y5V66AQAJ</a><br>[1]: <a href=3D"https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Cov=
enants_support" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"=
https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Dfr&amp;q=3Dhttps://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Coven=
ants_support&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1755800495804000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw=
0BacG3-BtmgmVggSD5GRRr">https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Covenants_support</a><br=
>[2]: <a href=3D"https://ctv-csfs.com/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" =
data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Dfr&amp;q=3Dhttps://=
ctv-csfs.com/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1755800495804000&amp;usg=3DAOvVa=
w0LIthRGOoZx0EJtF2X6OAV">https://ctv-csfs.com/</a><br>[3]: <a href=3D"https=
://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/5wLThgegha4/m/iUWIZPIaCAAJ" target=3D"_=
blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?=
hl=3Dfr&amp;q=3Dhttps://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/5wLThgegha4/m/iUWI=
ZPIaCAAJ&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1755800495804000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1ICG=
oLjzhRlsMDaD52IOJg">https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/5wLThgegha4/m/=
iUWIZPIaCAAJ</a><br>[4]: <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAFvNm=
HS4s_MbXP8o3kWmaUZ5Xks1b76jSDymp1Bjr--4R8_v3Q@mail.gmail.com/" target=3D"_b=
lank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?h=
l=3Dfr&amp;q=3Dhttps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAFvNmHS4s_MbXP8o3kWmaUZ5Xk=
s1b76jSDymp1Bjr--4R8_v3Q@mail.gmail.com/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D17558=
00495804000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0JvmkuCS_rut5wuD-TlVpw">https://gnusha.org/pi/b=
itcoindev/CAFvNmHS4s_MbXP8o3kWmaUZ5...@mail.gmail.com/</a><br>[5]: <a href=
=3D"https://diyhpl.us/cgit/pi-bitcoindev/plain/cc/877bbc8de83e7aa4d2252a047=
3d05d634946b4/dev/fd0" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirect=
url=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Dfr&amp;q=3Dhttps://diyhpl.us/cgit/pi=
-bitcoindev/plain/cc/877bbc8de83e7aa4d2252a0473d05d634946b4/dev/fd0&amp;sou=
rce=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1755800495804000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3pqm91Sel0UX_b0Zcl9Y=
sz">https://diyhpl.us/cgit/pi-bitcoindev/plain/cc/877bbc8de83e7aa4d2252a047=
3d05d634946b4/dev/fd0</a><br>[6]:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://bitnodes.io/nodes=
/?q=3Dknots#network-snapshot" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-safer=
edirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Dfr&amp;q=3Dhttps://bitnodes.i=
o/nodes/?q%3Dknots%23network-snapshot&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D17558004=
95804000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0aInl-vrCExQzamAQaVm2K">https://bitnodes.io/nodes/=
?q=3Dknots#network-snapshot</a><br><br>/dev/fd0<br>floppy disk guy</div>
</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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