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Date: Mon, 5 May 2025 15:25:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Greg Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: Unbreaking testnet4
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On Tuesday, March 18, 2025 at 9:24:49=E2=80=AFPM UTC Antoine Poinsot wrote:
Hi,
Testnet4 was rolled out a year ago to address the shortcomings of testnet3.=
=20
One of those shortcomings was the difficulty reset creating havoc. [0] In=
=20
spite of this a similar rule was adopted for testnet4. [1] As a result,=20
testnet4 is similarly creating havoc. [2]
The goal of testnet is to mimic the Bitcoin mainnet. This is why it is=20
useful to have in addition to a more control testing environment such as=20
Signet.
The given rationale for a difficulty reset was to let developers=20
occasionally mine blocks on their laptop. But you cannot have your cake and=
=20
eat it too: either the network is permissionless (PoW) or you assign=20
identities and privileges to some (Signet). By trying to do both at the=20
same time testnet4 created a loophole for abuse. As a result it failed on=
=20
both count: it neither mimics mainnet nor allows developers to mine active=
=20
blocks on their laptop.
I propose to fix this by removing the difficulty reset rule from testnet4=
=20
through a flag day hard fork on 2026-01-01. I picked a date well in the=20
future to minimize disruption. This leaves enough time for a patch to be=20
reviewed, merged, included in the next major Bitcoin Core release,=20
backported to previous releases and adopted by the infrastructure running=
=20
on testnet4. That should be enough for a test network.
Part of the root cause is violations of the gentleman's agreement to not=20
trade testnet coins for money, this results in predictable chaos with=20
people sniping the low difficulty blocks. Some believed that resetting=20
alone would discourage the conduct, but even if it had (it hadn't people=20
are selling them now) it was still likely that people would hoard up coins=
=20
just in case they became tradable in the future.
There is a simple fix for this which doesn't result in an operating=20
difference from Bitcoin, just an economic one. Hard fork in an=20
ultramassive premine, as large as possible but what stays with existing=20
value overflow logic. (so maybe an additional 21 million testnet btc?).
This also resolves the 'actual developers can't get coins problem' and if=
=20
someone starts trading tnbct for money, whomever has the premine wallet=20
should feel feel to sell into it what they can. Once they run out of coins=
=20
it'll be time for another testnet reset.
It may just not be possible to prevent degens from trading tn coins for=20
money, -- I mean consider the altcoins that some people spend money on :), =
=20
there is basically no low bar on how crappy you can make a cryptocurrency=
=20
where some scammer won't try to sell it to some fool. But what can't be=20
prevented can at least be turned into a benefit.
Compared to things like just rigging the subsidy to continue forever--=20
that's a bigger consensus change compared to bitcoin, and I think it=20
doesn't have the right incentive surface... some of the most popular=20
altcoins have endless inflation and people still use them. Instead you=20
want the failure mode to be "if you do trade this for money, most of the=20
profits end up going to support a developer or development, rather than=20
whatever jerk decided to trick people into paying for it". :)
Feel free to suggest yourself as the custodian of the premine. Or it could=
=20
be some anonymous party if there is a concern that they'll be pestered for=
=20
handouts. There should be a general expectation that the custodian of the=
=20
premine will use it for the betterment of Bitcoin development, but if it's=
=20
found that they're not-- solution is just another reset. :)
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
afb749b2-bdb8-4b2a-84ec-b703a64ad765n%40googlegroups.com.
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<div><div dir=3D"auto">On Tuesday, March 18, 2025 at 9:24:49=E2=80=AFPM UTC=
Antoine Poinsot wrote:<br /></div><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px=
0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div=
style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><div style=3D"f=
ont-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><div>Hi,<br />Testnet4
was rolled out a year ago to address the shortcomings of testnet3. One
of those shortcomings was the difficulty reset creating havoc. [0] In=20
spite of this a similar rule was adopted for testnet4. [1] As a result,=20
testnet4 is similarly creating havoc. [2]<br />The goal of testnet is=20
to mimic the Bitcoin mainnet. This is why it is useful to have in=20
addition to a more control testing environment such as Signet.<br />The
given rationale for a difficulty reset was to let developers=20
occasionally mine blocks on their laptop. But you cannot have your cake=20
and eat it too: either the network is permissionless (PoW) or you assign
identities and privileges to some (Signet). By trying to do both at the
same time testnet4 created a loophole for abuse. As a result it failed=20
on both count: it neither mimics mainnet nor allows developers to mine=20
active blocks on their laptop.<br />I propose to fix this by removing=20
the difficulty reset rule from testnet4 through a flag day hard fork on=20
2026-01-01. I picked a date well in the future to minimize disruption.=20
This leaves enough time for a patch to be reviewed, merged, included in=20
the next major Bitcoin Core release, backported to previous releases and
adopted by the infrastructure running on testnet4. That should be=20
enough for a test network.<br /></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br /><=
/div><div>Part of the root cause is violations of the gentleman's agreement=
to not trade testnet coins for money, this results in predictable chaos wi=
th people sniping the low difficulty blocks. Some believed that resetting a=
lone would discourage the conduct, but even if it had (it hadn't people are=
selling them now) it was still likely that people would hoard up coins jus=
t in case they became tradable in the future.</div><div><br /></div><div>Th=
ere is a simple fix for this which doesn't result in an operating differenc=
e from Bitcoin, just an economic one.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hard fork in an ultramass=
ive premine, as large as possible but what stays with existing value overfl=
ow logic. (so maybe an additional 21 million testnet btc?).</div><div><br /=
></div><div>This also resolves the 'actual developers can't get coins probl=
em' and if someone starts trading tnbct for money, whomever has the premine=
wallet should feel feel to sell into it what they can.=C2=A0 Once they run=
out of coins it'll be time for another testnet reset.</div><div><br /></di=
v><div>It may just not be possible to prevent degens from trading tn coins =
for money, -- I mean consider the altcoins that some people spend money on =
:),=C2=A0 there is basically no low bar on how crappy you can make a crypto=
currency where some scammer won't try to sell it to some fool.=C2=A0 But wh=
at can't be prevented can at least be turned into a benefit.</div><div><br =
/></div><div>Compared to things like just rigging the subsidy to continue f=
orever-- that's a bigger consensus change compared to bitcoin, and I think =
it doesn't have the right incentive surface... some of the most popular alt=
coins have endless inflation and people still use them.=C2=A0 Instead you w=
ant the failure mode to be "if you do trade this for money, most of the pro=
fits end up going to support a developer or development, rather than whatev=
er jerk decided to trick people into paying for it". :)</div><div><br /></d=
iv><div>Feel free to suggest yourself as the custodian of the premine.=C2=
=A0 Or it could be some anonymous party if there is a concern that they'll =
be pestered for handouts.=C2=A0 There should be a general expectation that =
the custodian of the premine will use it for the betterment of Bitcoin deve=
lopment,=C2=A0 but if it's found that they're not-- solution is just anothe=
r reset. :)</div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div></div>
<p></p>
-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
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To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
bitcoindev/afb749b2-bdb8-4b2a-84ec-b703a64ad765n%40googlegroups.com?utm_med=
ium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoind=
ev/afb749b2-bdb8-4b2a-84ec-b703a64ad765n%40googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
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