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From: Daniel Lipshitz <daniel@gap600.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 13:33:00 +0200
Message-ID: <CACkWPs9VawCYt7maiNqzafkFnHTiGJQkXMT4VXQQcG-rE2TTNw@mail.gmail.com>
To: John Carvalho <john@synonym.to>
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Cc: bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A proposal for Full RBF to not exclude Zero Conf
 use case
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I dont think there was anything technical with the implementation and as
far as I can tell this is well developed and ready.

The reasons I can find for not being adopted are listed here -
https://bitcoincore.org/en/faq/optin_rbf/ under - Why not First-seen-safe
Replace-by-fee

 Those reasons do not seem pertinent here - given OptinRBF already exists
as an option and the added benefit of continuing to be able to support
0-conf.

________________________________

Daniel Lipshitz
GAP600| www.gap600.com
Phone: +44 113 4900 117
Skype: daniellipshitz123
Twitter: @daniellipshitz


On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 11:59 AM John Carvalho <john@synonym.to> wrote:

> Why wasn't this solution put in place back then? Are there problems with
> the design?
>
> While I still think there are unhealthy side-effects of Full-RBF (like
> more doublespending at unknowing merchants, after years of FSS protection)
> I think discussion of this FSS-RBF feature is worth considering.
>
> --
> John Carvalho
> CEO, Synonym.to <http://synonym.to/>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 8:09 AM Daniel Lipshitz <daniel@gap600.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for bringing that to my attention, apologies for not being
>> aware of it.
>>
>> First-seen-safe replace-by-fee as detailed here
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html
>> by Peter Todd  seems to be a very suitable option and route
>> which balances FullRBF while retaining  the significant 0-conf use case.
>>
>> This would seem like a good way forward.
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 6:20 AM Yuval Kogman <nothingmuch@woobling.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html
>>>
>>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I dont think there was anything technical with the impleme=
ntation and as far as I can tell this is well developed and ready.<div><br>=
</div><div>The reasons I can find for not being adopted are listed here -=
=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://bitcoincore.org/en/faq/optin_rbf/">https://bitcoin=
core.org/en/faq/optin_rbf/</a> under - Why not First-seen-safe Replace-by-f=
ee=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0Those reasons do not seem pertinent=
=C2=A0here - given OptinRBF already exists as an option and the added benef=
it of continuing=C2=A0to be able to support 0-conf.</div><div><br clear=3D"=
all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmai=
l_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"font-size=
:12.8px">________________________________</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8=
px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-se=
rif">Daniel Lipshitz</font></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px;color:rgb(0=
,0,0)"><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif">GAP600|=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www=
.gap600.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.gap600.com</a></font></div><div style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif">Ph=
one:=C2=A0</font><span style=3D"font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:12.=
8px">+44 113 4900 117</span></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px;color:rgb(=
0,0,0)"><font face=3D"tahoma, sans-serif">Skype: daniellipshitz123</font></=
div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font face=3D"tahoma, =
sans-serif">Twitter: @daniellipshitz</font></div></div></div></div></div></=
div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 11:59 AM John Carvalho &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:john@synonym.to">john@synonym.to</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Why wasn&#39;t =
this solution put in=C2=A0place back then? Are there problems with the desi=
gn?<div><br></div><div>While I still think there are unhealthy side-effects=
 of Full-RBF (like more doublespending at unknowing=C2=A0merchants, after y=
ears of FSS protection) I think discussion of this FSS-RBF feature is worth=
 considering.</div><div><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">--</span><br style=3D"color:rgb(3=
4,34,34)"><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><div dir=3D"ltr">J=
ohn Carvalho</div><div dir=3D"ltr">CEO,=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://synonym.to/"=
 style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank">Synonym.to</a><br><div><f=
ont size=3D"1"><br></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue,=
 Dec 13, 2022 at 8:09 AM Daniel Lipshitz &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel@gap60=
0.com" target=3D"_blank">daniel@gap600.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
 solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you for br=
inging that to my attention, apologies for not being aware of it.<div><br><=
/div><div>First-seen-safe replace-by-fee as detailed here=C2=A0<a href=3D"h=
ttps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pi=
permail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html</a>=C2=A0 by Peter Todd=C2=A0<span=
 style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>seems to be a very=
 suitable option and route which=C2=A0balances FullRBF while retaining=C2=
=A0 the significant=C2=A00-conf use case.</div><div><br></div><div>This wou=
ld seem like a good way forward.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><b=
r><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px">________________________________</div><div style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 6:20 AM Yuval Kogman =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nothingmuch@woobling.org" target=3D"_blank">nothingmu=
ch@woobling.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex"><a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitco=
in-dev/2015-May/008248.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://l=
ists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-May/008248.html</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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