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Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 19:11:22 +0200 (CEST)
From: Prayank <prayank@tutanota.de>
To: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain: BIP 300 and 301
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printf("Hello, World!");

What are your thoughts on Drivechain and associated BIPs?

This article compares Liquid and Lightning:=C2=A0https://blog.liquid.net/si=
x-differences-between-liquid-and-lightning/. Two things from it that I am i=
nterested in while evaluating Drivechain:

1.Trust model
2.On-Ramps and Off-Ramps

Other things:

1.Security of Bitcoin (Layer 1)
2.Bitcoin transactions and fees expected on layer 1 because of Drivechain

Similarities and Differences between RSK and Ethereum:=C2=A0https://medium.=
com/iovlabs-innovation-stories/similarities-and-differences-between-rsk-and=
-ethereum-e480655eff37

Paul Sztorc had mentioned few things about fees in this video:=C2=A0https:/=
/youtu.be/oga8Pwbq9M0?t=3D481=C2=A0I am interested to know same for LN, Liq=
uid and Rootstock as well so asked a question on Bitcoin Stackexchange toda=
y:=C2=A0https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/109466/bitcoin-transact=
ions-associated-with-layer-2-projects

Two critiques are mentioned here:=C2=A0https://www.drivechain.info/peer-rev=
iew/peer-review-new/=C2=A0with lot of names. I don't agree with everything =
mentioned on project website although any comments on technical things that=
 can help Bitcoin and Bitcoin projects will be great.

Why discuss here and not on Twitter?

1.Twitter is not the best place for such discussions. There are some intere=
sting threads but Its mostly used for followers, likes, retweets etc. and p=
eople can write anything for it.
2.Avoid misinformation, controversies etc.=C2=A0

My personal opinion:

We should encourage sidechain projects. I don't know much about Drivechain =
to form a strong opinion but concept looks good which can help in making be=
tter sidechains.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------


The website used in the slides of above YouTube video is misleading for few=
 reasons:

1.Blocks mined everyday (in MB) for Bitcoin is ~150 MB. It is ~600 MB for E=
thereum. Block limits for Bitcoin is ~4 MB per 10 minutes and ~500 MB for E=
thereum. If full nodes will be run by few organizations on AWS we can basic=
ally do everything on chain. However the main goal isn't too make money and=
 create an illusion to do something innovative, primary goal was/is decentr=
alized network that allows settlement of payments.

2.Bitcoin uses UTXO model while Ethereum uses Account model. Basic differen=
ce in transactions for two is explained in an article=C2=A0https://coinmetr=
ics.io/on-data-and-certainty/. Irony is the website in the slides for scree=
nshot is using Coinmetrics API and this misleading website is even shared b=
y Coinmetrics team on Twitter. So in some cases you are doing more transact=
ions, paying more fees for work which could have been done with less. Ineff=
iciency.

3.Failed transactions paying fees on Ethereum everyday, no such transaction=
s on Bitcoin.

4.Other improvements that affect fees: Segwit, Layer 2, Batching, UTXO cons=
olidation, Fee estimation, Coin selection, Exchanges, Wallets etc.


--=20
Prayank

A3B1 E430 2298 178F

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    <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-8=
">
  </head>
  <body>
<div>printf("Hello, World!");<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">What are your thoughts on Drivechain and associated BIPs?<br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">This article compares Liqui=
d and Lightning:&nbsp;https://blog.liquid.net/six-differences-between-liqui=
d-and-lightning/. Two things from it that I am interested in while evaluati=
ng Drivechain:<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">1.Tru=
st model<br></div><div dir=3D"auto">2.On-Ramps and Off-Ramps<br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Other things:<br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">1.Security of Bitcoin (Layer 1)<br></div=
><div dir=3D"auto">2.Bitcoin transactions and fees expected on layer 1 beca=
use of Drivechain<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Si=
milarities and Differences between RSK and Ethereum:&nbsp;https://medium.co=
m/iovlabs-innovation-stories/similarities-and-differences-between-rsk-and-e=
thereum-e480655eff37<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
>Paul Sztorc had mentioned few things about fees in this video:&nbsp;https:=
//youtu.be/oga8Pwbq9M0?t=3D481&nbsp;I am interested to know same for LN, Li=
quid and Rootstock as well so asked a question on Bitcoin Stackexchange tod=
ay:&nbsp;https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/109466/bitcoin-transac=
tions-associated-with-layer-2-projects<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"auto">Two critiques are mentioned here:&nbsp;https://www.drive=
chain.info/peer-review/peer-review-new/&nbsp;with lot of names. I don't agr=
ee with everything mentioned on project website although any comments on te=
chnical things that can help Bitcoin and Bitcoin projects will be great.<br=
></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Why discuss here and n=
ot on Twitter?<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">1.Twi=
tter is not the best place for such discussions. There are some interesting=
 threads but Its mostly used for followers, likes, retweets etc. and people=
 can write anything for it.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto">2.Avoid misinformati=
on, controversies etc.&nbsp;<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">My personal opinion:<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto">We should encourage sidechain projects. I don't know much about =
Drivechain to form a strong opinion but concept looks good which can help i=
n making better sidechains.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">-----------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------------------------------------<br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"a=
uto">The website used in the slides of above YouTube video is misleading fo=
r few reasons:<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">1.Blo=
cks mined everyday (in MB) for Bitcoin is ~150 MB. It is ~600 MB for Ethere=
um. Block limits for Bitcoin is ~4 MB per 10 minutes and ~500 MB for Ethere=
um. If full nodes will be run by few organizations on AWS we can basically =
do everything on chain. However the main goal isn't too make money and crea=
te an illusion to do something innovative, primary goal was/is decentralize=
d network that allows settlement of payments.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"auto">2.Bitcoin uses UTXO model while Ethereum uses Acc=
ount model. Basic difference in transactions for two is explained in an art=
icle&nbsp;https://coinmetrics.io/on-data-and-certainty/. Irony is the websi=
te in the slides for screenshot is using Coinmetrics API and this misleadin=
g website is even shared by Coinmetrics team on Twitter. So in some cases y=
ou are doing more transactions, paying more fees for work which could have =
been done with less. Inefficiency.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">3.Failed transactions paying fees on Ethereum everyday, no s=
uch transactions on Bitcoin.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">4.Other improvements that affect fees: Segwit, Layer 2, Batching,=
 UTXO consolidation, Fee estimation, Coin selection, Exchanges, Wallets etc=
.<br></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br><br></div><div>-- <br></div><div>Pra=
yank<br></div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">A3B1 E430 2298 178F<br></div=
>  </body>
</html>

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