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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 05:41:26 +0200
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From: Wladimir <laanwj@gmail.com>
To: Roy Badami <roy@gnomon.org.uk>
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] bitcoin pull requests
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--bcaec52c69cbeb2e8b04d96ca096
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Maybe now that bitcoin is growing out of the toy phase it's an idea to
start gpg signing commits, like the Linux kernel (
https://lwn.net/Articles/466468/).
But I suppose then we can't use github anymore to merge as-is and need
manual steps?
Wladimir
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Roy Badami <roy@gnomon.org.uk> wrote:
> And the moment I hit send I realised it's not necessarily true.
> Conceivably, a collision attack might help you craft two commits (one
> good, one bad) with the same hash.
>
> But I still maintain what I just posted is true: if someone gets
> malicious code into the repo, it's going to be by social engineering,
> not by breaking the cyrpto.
>
> roy
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 01, 2013 at 11:51:07PM +0100, Roy Badami wrote:
> > The attack Schneier is talking about is a collision attack (i.e. it
> > creates two messages with the same hash, but you don't get to choose
> > either of the messages). It's not a second preimage attack, which is
> > what you would need to be able to create a message that hashes to the
> > same value of an existing message.
> >
> > (And it neither have anything to do with the birthday paradox, BTW -
> > which relates to the chance of eventually finding two messages that
> > hash to the same value by pure change)
> >
> > If someone gets malicious code into the repo, it's going to be by
> > social engineering, not by breaking the cyrpto.
> >
> > roy
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 12:27:51AM +0200, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
> > > On 2 April 2013 00:10, Will <will@phase.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The threat of a SHA1 collision attack to insert a malicious pull
> request
> > > > are tiny compared with the other threats - e.g. github being
> compromised,
> > > > one of the core developers' passwords being compromised, one of the
> core
> > > > developers going rogue, sourceforge (distribution site) being
> compromised
> > > > etc etc... believe me there's a lot more to worry about than a SHA1
> > > > attack...
> > > >
> > > > Not meaning to scare, just to put things in perspective - this is
> why we
> > > > all need to peer review each others commits and keep an eye out for
> > > > suspicious commits, leverage the benefits of this project being open
> source
> > > > and easily peer reviewed.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Very good points, and I think you're absolutely right.
> > >
> > > But just running the numbers, to get the picture, based of scheiner's
> > > statistics:
> > >
> > > http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/10/when_will_we_se.html
> > >
> > > We're talking about a million terrahashes = 2^60 right?
> > >
> > > With the block chain, you only have a 10 minute window, but with source
> > > code you have a longer time to prepare.
> > >
> > > Couldnt this be done with an ASIC in about a week?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Will
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 1 April 2013 23:52, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 1 April 2013 20:28, Petr Praus <petr@praus.net> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> An attacker would have to find a collision between two specific
> pieces
> > > >>> of code - his malicious code and a useful innoculous code that
> would be
> > > >>> accepted as pull request. This is the second, much harder case in
> the
> > > >>> birthday problem. When people talk about SHA-1 being broken they
> actually
> > > >>> mean the first case in the birthday problem - find any two
> arbitrary values
> > > >>> that hash to the same value. So, no I don't think it's a feasible
> attack
> > > >>> vector any time soon.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Besides, with that kind of hashing power, it might be more
> feasible to
> > > >>> cause problems in the chain by e.g. constantly splitting it.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> OK, maybe im being *way* too paranoid here ... but what if someone
> had
> > > >> access to github, could they replace one file with one they had
> prepared at
> > > >> some point?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On 1 April 2013 03:26, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> I was just looking at:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4571.0
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I'm just curious if there is a possible attack vector here based
> on the
> > > >>>> fact that git uses the relatively week SHA1
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Could a seemingly innocuous pull request generate another file
> with a
> > > >>>> backdoor/nonce combination that slips under the radar?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Apologies if this has come up before ...
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>>> Own the Future-Intel® Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013
> > > >>>> Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest.
> > > >>>> Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game
> > > >>>> on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes.
> > > >>>> Submit your demo by 6/6/13. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d
> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > > >>>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> Own the Future-Intel® Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013
> > > >> Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest.
> > > >> Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game
> > > >> on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes.
> > > >> Submit your demo by 6/6/13. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > > >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Own the Future-Intel® Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013
> > > Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest.
> > > Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game
> > > on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes.
> > > Submit your demo by 6/6/13. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Own the Future-Intel® Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013
> > Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest.
> > Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game
> > on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes.
> > Submit your demo by 6/6/13. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Own the Future-Intel® Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013
> Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest.
> Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game
> on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes.
> Submit your demo by 6/6/13. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
--bcaec52c69cbeb2e8b04d96ca096
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div>Maybe now that bitcoin is growing out of th=
e toy phase it's an idea to start gpg signing commits, like the Linux k=
ernel (<a href=3D"https://lwn.net/Articles/466468/">https://lwn.net/Article=
s/466468/</a>).<div>
<br></div><div>But I suppose then we can't use github anymore to merge =
as-is and need manual steps?<div><br></div><div>Wladimir</div><div><br><div=
><br></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Roy Badami <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=
=3D"mailto:roy@gnomon.org.uk" target=3D"_blank">roy@gnomon.org.uk</a>></=
span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
And the moment I hit send I realised it's not necessarily true.<br>
Conceivably, a collision attack might help you craft two commits (one<br>
good, one bad) with the same hash.<br>
<br>
But I still maintain what I just posted is true: if someone gets<br>
<div class=3D"im HOEnZb">malicious code into the repo, it's going to be=
by social engineering,<br>
not by breaking the cyrpto.<br>
<br>
roy<br>
<br>
<br>
</div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">On Mon, Apr 01, 2013 at 11:51=
:07PM +0100, Roy Badami wrote:<br>
> The attack Schneier is talking about is a collision attack (i.e. it<br=
>
> creates two messages with the same hash, but you don't get to choo=
se<br>
> either of the messages). =C2=A0It's not a second preimage attack, =
which is<br>
> what you would need to be able to create a message that hashes to the<=
br>
> same value of an existing message.<br>
><br>
> (And it neither have anything to do with the birthday paradox, BTW -<b=
r>
> which relates to the chance of eventually finding two messages that<br=
>
> hash to the same value by pure change)<br>
><br>
> If someone gets malicious code into the repo, it's going to be by<=
br>
> social engineering, not by breaking the cyrpto.<br>
><br>
> roy<br>
><br>
> On Tue, Apr 02, 2013 at 12:27:51AM +0200, Melvin Carvalho wrote:<br>
> > On 2 April 2013 00:10, Will <<a href=3D"mailto:will@phase.net"=
>will@phase.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > > The threat of a SHA1 collision attack to insert a malicious =
pull request<br>
> > > are tiny compared with the other threats - e.g. github being=
compromised,<br>
> > > one of the core developers' passwords being compromised,=
one of the core<br>
> > > developers going rogue, sourceforge (distribution site) bein=
g compromised<br>
> > > etc etc... believe me there's a lot more to worry about =
than a SHA1<br>
> > > attack...<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Not meaning to scare, just to put things in perspective - th=
is is why we<br>
> > > all need to peer review each others commits and keep an eye =
out for<br>
> > > suspicious commits, leverage the benefits of this project be=
ing open source<br>
> > > and easily peer reviewed.<br>
> > ><br>
> ><br>
> > Very good points, and I think you're absolutely right.<br>
> ><br>
> > But just running the numbers, to get the picture, based of schein=
er's<br>
> > statistics:<br>
> ><br>
> > <a href=3D"http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/10/when_wil=
l_we_se.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/=
10/when_will_we_se.html</a><br>
> ><br>
> > We're talking about a million terrahashes =3D 2^60 right?<br>
> ><br>
> > With the block chain, you only have a 10 minute window, but with =
source<br>
> > code you have a longer time to prepare.<br>
> ><br>
> > Couldnt this be done with an ASIC in about a week?<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > Will<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > On 1 April 2013 23:52, Melvin Carvalho <<a href=3D"mailto=
:melvincarvalho@gmail.com">melvincarvalho@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > >><br>
> > >><br>
> > >><br>
> > >> On 1 April 2013 20:28, Petr Praus <<a href=3D"mailto:=
petr@praus.net">petr@praus.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> > >><br>
> > >>> An attacker would have to find a collision between t=
wo specific pieces<br>
> > >>> of code - his malicious code and a useful innoculous=
code that would be<br>
> > >>> accepted as pull request. This is the second, much h=
arder case in the<br>
> > >>> birthday problem. When people talk about SHA-1 being=
broken they actually<br>
> > >>> mean the first case in the birthday problem - find a=
ny two arbitrary values<br>
> > >>> that hash to the same value. So, no I don't thin=
k it's a feasible attack<br>
> > >>> vector any time soon.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> Besides, with that kind of hashing power, it might b=
e more feasible to<br>
> > >>> cause problems in the chain by e.g. constantly split=
ting it.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >><br>
> > >> OK, maybe im being *way* too paranoid here ... but what =
if someone had<br>
> > >> access to github, could they replace one file with one t=
hey had prepared at<br>
> > >> some point?<br>
> > >><br>
> > >><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> On 1 April 2013 03:26, Melvin Carvalho <<a href=
=3D"mailto:melvincarvalho@gmail.com">melvincarvalho@gmail.com</a>> wrote=
:<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>>> =C2=A0I was just looking at:<br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>> <a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?top=
ic=3D4571.0" target=3D"_blank">https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D45=
71.0</a><br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>> I'm just curious if there is a possible atta=
ck vector here based on the<br>
> > >>>> fact that git uses the relatively week SHA1<br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>> Could a seemingly innocuous pull request generat=
e another file with a<br>
> > >>>> backdoor/nonce combination that slips under the =
radar?<br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>> Apologies if this has come up before ...<br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------=
------------------------------<br>
> > >>>> Own the Future-Intel&reg; Level Up Game Demo=
Contest 2013<br>
> > >>>> Rise to greatness in Intel's independent gam=
e demo contest.<br>
> > >>>> Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to=
get your game<br>
> > >>>> on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skil=
l prizes.<br>
> > >>>> Submit your demo by 6/6/13. <a href=3D"http://p.=
sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_le=
velupd2d</a><br>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________<=
br>
> > >>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
> > >>>> <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sour=
ceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
> > >>>> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/l=
istinfo/bitcoin-development" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.ne=
t/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >><br>
> > >><br>
> > >> --------------------------------------------------------=
----------------------<br>
> > >> Own the Future-Intel&reg; Level Up Game Demo Contest=
2013<br>
> > >> Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo c=
ontest.<br>
> > >> Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get you=
r game<br>
> > >> on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes=
.<br>
> > >> Submit your demo by 6/6/13. <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/s=
fu/intel_levelupd2d" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d=
</a><br>
> > >> _______________________________________________<br>
> > >> Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
> > >> <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.=
net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
> > >> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/=
bitcoin-development" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/=
listinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>
> > >><br>
> > >><br>
> > ><br>
><br>
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------<br>
> > Own the Future-Intel&reg; Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013<br>
> > Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest.<b=
r>
> > Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game<br=
>
> > on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes.<br>
> > Submit your demo by 6/6/13. <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_=
levelupd2d" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d</a><br>
><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
> > <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitc=
oin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
> > <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-d=
evelopment" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/=
bitcoin-development</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------<br>
> Own the Future-Intel&reg; Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013<br>
> Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest.<br>
> Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game<br>
> on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes.<br>
> Submit your demo by 6/6/13. <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_level=
upd2d" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-d=
evelopment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-develo=
pment" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitco=
in-development</a><br>
><br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
Own the Future-Intel&reg; Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013<br>
Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest.<br>
Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game<br>
on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes.<br>
Submit your demo by 6/6/13. <a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d=
" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
--bcaec52c69cbeb2e8b04d96ca096--
|
