1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
|
Delivery-date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 06:24:41 -0700
Received: from mail-qt1-f190.google.com ([209.85.160.190])
by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
(Exim 4.94.2)
(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBDFIP6H73EBBBEOIUWYAMGQEOEMJTVI@googlegroups.com>)
id 1rqvAu-0005YA-Tx
for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Sun, 31 Mar 2024 06:24:41 -0700
Received: by mail-qt1-f190.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-430d9e76fe8sf32080391cf.3
for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Sun, 31 Mar 2024 06:24:40 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1711891474; cv=pass;
d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
b=RWLdGnVgAjRvJW3sNmkyHiazrefkNtuOGg7svZrmCvmUDBlEf25LtHnh8XNaAi2fli
Tlou52y1j3pmmHtWqI3wbvAtl63Dpzo6Z4s6n1syqvG7OnGF/ndM/aHHzIXrluLAg04Y
nTA7P/1tNp1V1lI/OQ8QbIATng/iIZBA4sfxaGPL2HI4EOTju9hzL7sYX8LI97MRizeL
jZTIAZhQK8ANs3dpxnRF4z7PJU4Yc3zhmJkX/6rDH6aiamBL8VG17wcn1VJhkiOv8goj
xvRouolvTuRRQYn6ITNG+xluCh66j2W1QBymznpiLEt979fjVgGDpyOBsHKOufeiGUBV
l8+A==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:to:subject:message-id:date:from
:mime-version:sender:dkim-signature:dkim-signature;
bh=7h7lW9J06RYX+OAEA4OfV7kCyoQb4BTcCU/Za1lSWCw=;
fh=OYiNoFd4WJ56rRDn6p951oHxP+DnCjx6HHq/FBvRDl0=;
b=cnu02Dvb1fW58GZyxQyIuOGhtpXdYgc9FIPui/eifwW0slkl0MblSYYOBWPxpyrQQh
PZf8B7p1N6AX7mjYUrYyE4NkxV/akOlvkxjcFfz01e7zYQFHXMjNiIxH7qCQaEvh0t72
kSXyRtUOl51ScC29f/wE01dhydXeWGw5mEjnhqLrRqzrjIZuJ7UWDWS14Q2ePfVricnc
AC6CnPx/FXeyNC7sD6PkRlWjIxh7NylWHjn4j7pOA0s50WDL/eShmT6YXlgAXRGx7QCA
xRpdk1HyHrBSXUJfxdiT6LirKCPxaznKpDww/hgSFB/sigpdQVP/hxSMess5ILV9MFsj
uUag==;
darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=fEr3HO67;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of jameson.lopp@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::12b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jameson.lopp@gmail.com;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1711891474; x=1712496274; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version
:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=7h7lW9J06RYX+OAEA4OfV7kCyoQb4BTcCU/Za1lSWCw=;
b=W1TW64Gy7ZDXCPXyXe/OTVodJw04TtHzw/x+UUeDV1tYkg+AyGaY9ZvzKjvianAC/J
uddynRoCaTIIorwQJuLxp4770pMdv6JPzhzLi7FTj8WRFomRAP2RQIwYKBBGLfte+KGv
uQwQ65RoXTgdAviagkTJaSYZPfnyK/N5I6Dc0s3ZwWBcil4/ZhgOVbClbgJik5QVCxxZ
MYX/XHp4o8TwcIpA1QKcRotCKxebgjIEALBSI4QCS4ubdWpY4SzsHvlyKa7I6yYHluxH
ZEaIQe5SiRCQvgQtzwG+Ec9xRBHwSxbOGII4iPBjpmqmKq7YZ2/CVJLUGknzgLJlMCQs
S6Ug==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1711891474; x=1712496274; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from
:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=7h7lW9J06RYX+OAEA4OfV7kCyoQb4BTcCU/Za1lSWCw=;
b=G0R3MqTq1BQFqiWAYju4eifToYA9W3LaYh1qPR9xd0VwE68zHmYa1DqOhuaf6eC/VV
rX/bxTILRohz4qFbY6xR3go8jGdH/UJgt7KnO7lyeqCgWTHP3R8MOp5MtkQxVP9/tHnu
CADn6ROZUQbMyqsp/DnKbTK4bIJYLEvKIumYGCEhMFqFB/+49QmdJ4cPv/Fbj4vZu0I4
+2y+WFhhdNW04oJVnokb6zTQHeC3QbcVkRzKNOwjScqVB7UU471/hmia/bgXoeA16K34
Oq+QXELAmxNuG+H25Mwe1rDgBZRTCIGjMD2TuKuBblWoAK5ZKwxJbhuJE3v2zym4TjoR
/zwA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1711891474; x=1712496274;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version
:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date
:message-id:reply-to;
bh=7h7lW9J06RYX+OAEA4OfV7kCyoQb4BTcCU/Za1lSWCw=;
b=CGLr6yNHk6S3TcYwBr2idMzyzSh7POJcj1AutevwlyJGTOM4mNHUOxxfLKVMFm9odn
rpkcO52O//vB/0SAyAnwfQPQ50WwZCoy4BbHM8ZE1wziigDgmsa1VcxHDl32dovqvsCd
J71yzhuhYn4oyCzllKCm/4SPK588BWHJqpXqh+i6rbxUjUqRZaDOOHxhqOo75dg00T8q
GjfmlbcHBMrCSKxFULppsDWJ3mEXRXIR/gNUrofOI/yzm7RixulJs086P1EjljtDWLct
blXyECUIVJwgKOVGI0zw7jdqeKmS8YnaqtrFefOIkmZ998icX5GR29PeNV+Zu8xp0aLR
OfqA==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCUphbZMo8lO2eWRJlfnHU5DvZHeHB/fOGm6fWA5pLZTaRiZfLgJoa6j5UrUwOGkaLB2PQBkNikbJOLy8JSPIduB9CUnoiI=
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyQAkTbAGazh3lpg4oM/HQQsRXUURA/v0rGBiNp40VEbmMtzwPN
xTD5MVSjBcu5X9GFzzFKajj3y+PrbL9twfpRz2f0s0rq2BTCBbIV
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGsJo01PoKb6RhNlk2M8AAUMbx4h7JLUIgRKmtfH4W2eqiC181m+FjfzpU/5jFJA8WhI6Twcw==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1008:b0:431:817d:1828 with SMTP id d8-20020a05622a100800b00431817d1828mr8850094qte.41.1711891474164;
Sun, 31 Mar 2024 06:24:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
Received: by 2002:a05:622a:34b:b0:432:f146:cdec with SMTP id
r11-20020a05622a034b00b00432f146cdecls63122qtw.2.-pod-prod-09-us; Sun, 31 Mar
2024 06:24:33 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:146:b0:432:e694:3c0f with SMTP id v6-20020a05622a014600b00432e6943c0fmr111276qtw.13.1711891472935;
Sun, 31 Mar 2024 06:24:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 2002:a05:620a:28d0:b0:78a:4813:d207 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-78bc5d1eca4ms85a;
Sun, 31 Mar 2024 06:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:4895:b0:513:dac5:ee22 with SMTP id eq21-20020a056512489500b00513dac5ee22mr4190842lfb.28.1711891204291;
Sun, 31 Mar 2024 06:20:04 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1711891204; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
b=NJuM2IKP+FFJBGPchgh84dqayWn2ZXZ2GLFMf4PhO/zmlFpdj1l6am07KAQy7D37qn
IhPW8hTz+GVpxe3YfyREdf4uCcMpsCYXMXA1Ndiyk+cAWJhACJLg0WPBt88BiYI/pbIR
5E5+ambJUGg7sYDcOkpl+mahiQ+Sh427ERsV8G5bCt16lC7UZGC0f9VY7PJ5p3sCFszt
JiYQVOeZdG+y0kpO1B53pMDqURFXFuhqMj4ZEyItlVKEozDvxa5U1ubXs3WfqR7QdoEs
mJTY3zviYTp5gvVK6iOi3k/4tZs6NvdS3Tyeduq4W7iHFezrFvE/GuaJeOWFpqG15dYi
J6KA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:dkim-signature;
bh=fkvznpLGu5HR0ruVOemqucax9JMxjVVc8qWDLNXjpdw=;
fh=VcGcg+Zjs9gw1uDcHbxsAILhBAcecnbJzZRdxgKVDIc=;
b=FJ5SoEqDlyxgb7kkF8ZEzxFjAywXMcuJs/XrRnOciqkqBrjbWd7Fq1F3wOqJWvbSoa
FYoomXxtdRfpXurywqyqxgpBotKF38DnwjpSVKfaGFeIOXspLf5LDwCuk9Kw+RKyAY92
8fXXV7+XSxegi7v6nyGwTCAdfEe3OyhbaHbM2xVkvUe6/y3cFtzBC2uoHRgXmYbf1ScH
56VV1lBcCEqrZ80f+CwHxCojseg+RKraFoDJ3ENCrT95vXNH7UsJGDcyjQ+as3bDGc1Y
u5HguRSIly8uySGWbghqQafzIF7ea1emtdGCzZcaQSRboNGQAqU+i2plXjvJL4SXjb98
qmkg==;
dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=fEr3HO67;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of jameson.lopp@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::12b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jameson.lopp@gmail.com;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com
Received: from mail-lf1-x12b.google.com (mail-lf1-x12b.google.com. [2a00:1450:4864:20::12b])
by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cf8-20020a056512280800b00515cb28541bsi192771lfb.5.2024.03.31.06.20.04
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
Sun, 31 Mar 2024 06:20:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jameson.lopp@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::12b as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::12b;
Received: by mail-lf1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-516a97b3139so107133e87.2
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>; Sun, 31 Mar 2024 06:20:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4f13:0:b0:516:aaa4:d122 with SMTP id
k19-20020ac24f13000000b00516aaa4d122mr213501lfr.27.1711891202595; Sun, 31 Mar
2024 06:20:02 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
From: Jameson Lopp <jameson.lopp@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2024 09:19:50 -0400
Message-ID: <CADL_X_eXjbRFROuJU0b336vPVy5Q2RJvhcx64NSNPH-3fDCUfw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: [bitcoindev] The Future of Bitcoin Testnet
To: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000661210614f4bb96"
X-Original-Sender: jameson.lopp@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass
header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=fEr3HO67; spf=pass
(google.com: domain of jameson.lopp@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::12b
as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jameson.lopp@gmail.com; dmarc=pass
(p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
<https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/)
--0000000000000661210614f4bb96
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi all,
I'd like to open a discussion about testnet3 to put out some feelers on
potential changes to it. First, a few facts:
1. Testnet3 has been running for 13 years. It's on block 2.5 million
something and the block reward is down to ~0.014 TBTC, so mining is not
doing a great job at distributing testnet coins any more.
2. The reason the block height is insanely high is due to a rather amusing
edge case bug that causes the difficulty to regularly get reset to 1, which
causes a bit of havoc. If you want a deep dive into the quirk:
https://blog.lopp.net/the-block-storms-of-bitcoins-testnet/
3. Testnet3 is being actively used for scammy airdrops; those of us who
tend to be generous with our testnet coins are getting hounded by
non-developers chasing cheap gains.
4. As a result, TBTC is being actively bought and sold; one could argue
that the fundamental principle of testnet coins having no value has been
broken.
This leads me to ponder the following questions, for which I'm soliciting
feedback.
1. Should we plan for a reset of testnet? If so, given how long it has been
since the last reset and how many production systems will need to be
updated, would a reset need to be done with a great deal of notice?
2. Is there interest in fixing the difficulty reset bug? It should be a one
liner fix, and I'd argue it could be done sooner rather than later, and
orthogonal to the network reset question. Would such a change, which would
technically be a hard fork (but also arguably a self resolving fork due to
the difficulty dynamics) necessitate a BIP or could we just YOLO it?
3. Is all of the above a waste of time and we should instead deprecate
testnet in favor of signet?
- Jameson
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CADL_X_eXjbRFROuJU0b336vPVy5Q2RJvhcx64NSNPH-3fDCUfw%40mail.gmail.com.
--0000000000000661210614f4bb96
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi all,<div><br></div><div>I'd like to open a discussi=
on about testnet3 to put out some feelers on potential changes to it. First=
, a few facts:</div><div><br></div><div>1. Testnet3 has been running for 13=
years. It's on block 2.5 million something and the block reward is dow=
n to ~0.014 TBTC, so mining is not doing a great job at distributing testne=
t coins any more.</div><div><br></div><div>2. The reason the block height i=
s insanely high is due to a rather amusing edge case bug that causes the di=
fficulty to regularly get reset to 1, which causes a bit of havoc. If you w=
ant a deep dive into the quirk:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://blog.lopp.net/the-b=
lock-storms-of-bitcoins-testnet/">https://blog.lopp.net/the-block-storms-of=
-bitcoins-testnet/</a></div><div><br></div><div>3. Testnet3 is being active=
ly used for scammy airdrops; those of us who tend to be generous with our t=
estnet coins are getting hounded by non-developers chasing cheap gains.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>4. As a result, TBTC is being actively bought and sol=
d; one could argue that the fundamental principle of testnet=C2=A0coins hav=
ing no value has been broken.</div><div><br></div><div>This leads me to pon=
der the following questions, for which I'm soliciting feedback.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>1. Should we plan for a reset of testnet? If so, given ho=
w long it has been since the last reset and how many production systems wil=
l need to be updated, would a reset need to be done with a great deal of no=
tice?</div><div><br></div><div>2. Is there interest in fixing the difficult=
y reset bug? It should be a one liner fix, and I'd argue it could be do=
ne sooner rather than later, and orthogonal to the network reset question. =
Would such a change, which would technically be a hard fork (but also argua=
bly a self resolving fork due to the difficulty dynamics) necessitate a BIP=
or could we just YOLO it?</div><div><br></div><div>3. Is all of the above =
a waste of time and we should instead deprecate testnet in favor of signet?=
</div><div><br></div><div>- Jameson</div></div>
<p></p>
-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bitcoind=
ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.c=
om/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CADL_X_eXjbRFROuJU0b336vPVy5Q2RJvhcx64NSNPH-3fDCUfw%4=
0mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.goog=
le.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CADL_X_eXjbRFROuJU0b336vPVy5Q2RJvhcx64NSNPH-3fDCU=
fw%40mail.gmail.com</a>.<br />
--0000000000000661210614f4bb96--
|
