1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
|
Delivery-date: Wed, 11 Jun 2025 17:02:21 -0700
Received: from mail-oi1-f191.google.com ([209.85.167.191])
by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
(Exim 4.94.2)
(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBCV5B3G674FRBBFSVDBAMGQE5GCIXEY@googlegroups.com>)
id 1uPVOf-0000zT-6G
for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Wed, 11 Jun 2025 17:02:21 -0700
Received: by mail-oi1-f191.google.com with SMTP id 5614622812f47-406682d29e1sf353283b6e.3
for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Wed, 11 Jun 2025 17:02:21 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1749686535; cv=pass;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=e4oA4YtpLTZIicx5mYkzYJ339JLwxRrXUlTKX5rK6CIqG99rzD2JY69aZXfZnwWz+L
diUn5hebyQQQwWlWxFkrWZgaNyziGE8ItXTqQoFov2LAq6ovqHCElOAPRLk3qVa/aA5L
UKI5eQlipwaLhgFFaq/yNBSvT+4lLzP1pL8Mwmauc+fQDdEgH/Dcxua/Al92MtH4a93+
OtSpCwmWFEikua8fZ6cAINvUarMsz7pKtMDr4IaX9yZ1apr/+zgnpySyD/l0sMJtmWEq
sQtgV7Gci8rvSpeOlYcu23fUrkpy2UdBfYac+GpH49sB8O52K5z6NiKnG09MZ/Z98qsw
Aktg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from
:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:sender:dkim-signature
:dkim-signature;
bh=9hYo0EsywIal5rTW3D+hqGLMNt8sq27gOHjMioJ2bg8=;
fh=Lg+zbcbziOj/tA0bGYVCHpLZEZ+tMG7JBd3em1eI3KE=;
b=FziBRafblU+27acnkfqFL3EjCi/hKlYXoZL0ljmJa9hEn16EQofjcJXz+be5aK9ERW
vaPcPPDyNKeXJXoynoUv+ttaF4XBPuxnjPO+Zt6zuSB7rbPSdGxCjl42YunElHLIJKPq
wbcXBOm1NNwrn0fsbH6x90hlbwuu1Upq94LMaYjh0nNvsFsMjCXdQeQj+YrQqLd9d/Io
YcdcLMQl7edfx1ceT3uQc766TEnuHbFPPmAHx/J2IRkIkfu/nFEir+4M3E27mdn683SW
xLUq+8rNP23Ah21XmOaOpuQS4npj5cjsxq3eQY1AsJoh7oF77WLDbr1YVeW7oaajdmIy
00Nw==;
darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=OOvfkpPT;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of james.obeirne@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=james.obeirne@gmail.com;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1749686535; x=1750291335; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to
:references:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
:reply-to;
bh=9hYo0EsywIal5rTW3D+hqGLMNt8sq27gOHjMioJ2bg8=;
b=baMWj3L86glwtuqexrZf8zmcT2oN4nr4cqGO7h7d7bvT2FtWnlJas8a/65qFJmZ38V
O58h5eoM1XCNf/yc37xUjLk3gOHKW5cY+gqgGuEPK1l89HlsxJNOKibmdJzkG3DeZOQ4
eaEOPco99g++M/5wA649xNN1OTLy9d/kV0v2a2oz4IUbW3A/n2GVeB5HpudvMiTVq2Fx
ALA8WPUbooPC492aImzbpwP2o/41goFZOkAUBo5XrmTNTrPh9saLniVlmjQl9mpZFBPy
4/ptDiMi3YRcHF/SP1gw1HoQjcO87dgIyom9ADzMrRvTHlv9M03OEGciHpGQfzGnL1uQ
tSlQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1749686535; x=1750291335; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to
:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=9hYo0EsywIal5rTW3D+hqGLMNt8sq27gOHjMioJ2bg8=;
b=QsZbROolJFkYrQ1vcVHPf+Y/VGqbqdPqgaU7SJqhENlEBX3Rhao1j7j4wyH0OgLLLf
Be5ryvATPNC+c2GD11InjZK9rp2yKUe/xQ2/5TMbRhl/vpi1u5RVTrAiJU2Ps62eRZa7
28HMAsW2xkkz5ucmkrStebbD11AI4M/F+sIgY4Q110sDWtCHe+aNXZU1IFIOP7iqfqaD
yAxKgSevAy9rToMAcVGuqG05EXLj2+EvYghuDf6MW3FaNAOHXdhSR/71SAb3xeVK0x5k
ASfU7uQxxi7hfBzGebiiJHDO3VArR826m/viflcJC07rt7q81K2laBh8rPXaoetMvOyI
sTzw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1749686535; x=1750291335;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to
:references:mime-version:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from
:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=9hYo0EsywIal5rTW3D+hqGLMNt8sq27gOHjMioJ2bg8=;
b=cyjjahivd3R872g92JSCeWxlahW7r3nygTFesf/i/LJQqKIlY+7+OJ8atc1IXpj0L7
kmT2DIY4/L/ysRMcHYGsU/3BFt+Tu+p8XTYMrdC5omoymCSrdUaOftvv0ZiGZWJpxilK
68Ymc0v3aWb06vQYssPNLOe5cn5aHNs0JNf+lbO/XQ7CK3uGDu/EiQSG6kc80Izz6AwF
n6uF/wNX+cVvyM+tGo9Ja2ZLrfHJtA9Ttb5fSlqcRZOSFCHWvP1liSPYiLQXn13Wcb8b
7hhgF0Kd7ITj/BSiq2CUBuPI1d13Td0RSiusFuI4wDOFUDjSzD6EYU9usKdj8Tz6Pfn4
Q1AQ==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCU2zH2v6zGUThJqYPdoVdTylYsmhCidubz4SZIn7c8/nJPrjltONIejKvZaK4IkBSJeeCQfiCXpI+lJ@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yymo/elsQlBbK59Rwzqvy5nFUUZV3xqu/taCWxqRQYTUb+loPn7
MdGLzBsHYfoqICC0tFtvrkBX+P6UrmpXEqWGcl3s0JeYNdMjdswEjKSe
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IH1stX85enDzJDG9QGnpOl+iTJuuvY/WvOTN95CXPkoyPoczmzPXR4Nngx/Gz+QvkwCh+1CQQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:180c:b0:409:f8e:7282 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-40a65f87782mr1103671b6e.5.1749686535411;
Wed, 11 Jun 2025 17:02:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=AZMbMZd5FcbtgbBCrnsWnccJDdV0NY5/GifJ1Q7bu8fX/qXrbw==
Received: by 2002:a4a:b14b:0:b0:60e:4d42:51b4 with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-610fd2417c8ls77440eaf.0.-pod-prod-05-us;
Wed, 11 Jun 2025 17:02:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1786:b0:3f9:36ec:dab3 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-40a65fdfee7mr786001b6e.14.1749686532296;
Wed, 11 Jun 2025 17:02:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 2002:a05:6808:201:b0:3fa:da36:efcd with SMTP id 5614622812f47-40a5d43ad09msb6e;
Wed, 11 Jun 2025 11:34:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6871:5297:b0:296:e698:3227 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2eab47cb4demr344521fac.36.1749666884067;
Wed, 11 Jun 2025 11:34:44 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1749666884; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=TvtLb/xaGscz+2HRtjkyNnOGPfX8cNk2MawPkipfPJJyZ3kf/akhOT/oTi5eQwzL/Y
iDMjNPKy+KofxW80Uh9HFWSghuqeHVmtMuWuie7mfzbqdoQGyvDUWH6ge8MPn3UoH8Td
tM+D4pM6pjp2z/BImrSbxYGR2aCHzWovbZ1uU2aFNiUvTwsu+BpmfcoBQrGv9nls/Amw
VzXM5kB41NdW/IOG1cPuh6tU4un/tev4VhrdBnk+m7k46Mw6vnFwCFHLIXfhR22FOHFN
holldCam8dEQdUIQul0wkZoeaTmYOvdzKKd40NBUwxNJZHuLa3ewUd0lx2H+SpQB+1VJ
cTzg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references
:mime-version:dkim-signature;
bh=nWisJKenAroqAuuUVl5Jg3pUZbRDZ4xGAX9nqiEereU=;
fh=sjkP8zjFS5lFlY+fNUHD47XPXx06dShKmNgWs4F+if8=;
b=GuSTq+WLOBVAa81p5OxsO+B2x+FTqOpSrDZPcJrop1QSBl6zaHhjShpscls2ATWxRx
0ksxr7UHa2I4PRjKALS2YkosZ74Ga79NWdIGYf55yFHYc9DScPwpc5U+Bj4ubG1NZLoW
/UyLeNtcWgzoaKg32Ks1Qh+LXv/PT2XHz/s0Zvdn+MuwolGXbgI6pEdwpFAFl4F8Lk1k
Av72V4/mIJH8rJfc3f2gJen7eQm0UMKdhK8cjwt2voIBHl+FPmTRHcUBjGZ8l36L//E9
B0qFPgByam7ij8Ts1K3ao3k09wDQhpo2HhObEpBbvA27HmrAIeaA3tH3ZxGzs+rkg+SE
ltng==;
dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=OOvfkpPT;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of james.obeirne@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=james.obeirne@gmail.com;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
Received: from mail-pj1-x1036.google.com (mail-pj1-x1036.google.com. [2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036])
by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 586e51a60fabf-2ea0702d74dsi659109fac.1.2025.06.11.11.34.44
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
Wed, 11 Jun 2025 11:34:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of james.obeirne@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036;
Received: by mail-pj1-x1036.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-311d5fdf1f0so223665a91.1
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>; Wed, 11 Jun 2025 11:34:44 -0700 (PDT)
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncubWKFTUlBkukbvAPE6RXvo8GnVmysgVfGliwXQbuLFCPvLdLRve+UwdNEDi88
TNTw1UE/748ArZcchrxQ4aeIk00wGzsNjrRzlHj/HDlYd2yAhuzTFsaD8SkJR5TQSvb/QVHJJN9
wcuEa5Vkc6s747wE3drTLO4NqXzt8e5a0Zgp7a5JgMxQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:e705:b0:313:283e:e881 with SMTP id
98e67ed59e1d1-313bfbb3b91mr882020a91.11.1749666883076; Wed, 11 Jun 2025
11:34:43 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <a86c2737-db79-4f54-9c1d-51beeb765163n@googlegroups.com>
<aEdoIvOgNNtT6L4s@mail.wpsoftware.net> <CAKaEYh+tLtzaqAcN26RLw3AeNhF6VYvMdKrQY6dfCdhYg2Ad3w@mail.gmail.com>
<b17d0544-d292-4b4d-98c6-fa8dc4ef573cn@googlegroups.com> <CAPfvXfKEgA0RCvxR=mP70sfvpzTphTZGidy=JuSK8f1WnM9xYA@mail.gmail.com>
<CAB3F3Dsf8=rbOyPf1yTQDzyQQX6FAoJWTg16VC8PVs4_uBkeTw@mail.gmail.com> <CAPfvXfL=7bQvhN5ZOJoS-hQ8TmUku=mNhxNop=ZhcyH+kqs9jw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAPfvXfL=7bQvhN5ZOJoS-hQ8TmUku=mNhxNop=ZhcyH+kqs9jw@mail.gmail.com>
From: "James O'Beirne" <james.obeirne@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2025 14:34:32 -0400
X-Gm-Features: AX0GCFtLqd2Bah-vt3PNtIGevefCkSrVz7Llo4r7YM0Ys9Z5XELiyRlbnO79tdM
Message-ID: <CAPfvXfJNAh1OiCdQ0K0_8A7OkPPb72jrL5J685j=7T5UDtALUw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] CTV + CSFS: a letter
To: Greg Sanders <gsanders87@gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000a88fa06375011ba"
X-Original-Sender: james.obeirne@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass
header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=OOvfkpPT; spf=pass
(google.com: domain of james.obeirne@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1036
as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=james.obeirne@gmail.com; dmarc=pass
(p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
<https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/)
--0000000000000a88fa06375011ba
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> Worth noting that even after the discovery that this hack isn't a real
> use for CTV, Robin still signed this letter. But I will let him speak
> for himself.
Correction and my apologies - I thought (incorrectly) based on a reading
of the last few related Delving posts[0] that CTV wasn't actually
usable for BitVM, but I'm being told that it is. Great news!
[0]:
https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/how-ctv-csfs-improves-bitvm-bridges/1591/23
To me this emphasizes that preserving legacy CTV is a good move now; that
way BitVM can meet its needs while more generic, ergonomic mechanisms
like TXHASH undergo design and debate.
James
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAPfvXfJNAh1OiCdQ0K0_8A7OkPPb72jrL5J685j%3D7T5UDtALUw%40mail.gmail.com.
--0000000000000a88fa06375011ba
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">> Worth noting that even after the dis=
covery that this hack isn't a real<br>> use for CTV, Robin still sig=
ned this letter. But I will let him speak<br>> for himself.<br><br>Corre=
ction and my apologies - I thought (incorrectly) based on a reading=C2=A0</=
div><div dir=3D"ltr">of the last few related Delving posts[0] that CTV wasn=
't actually=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"ltr">usable for BitVM, but I'm b=
eing told that it is. Great news!</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"ltr">[0]:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/how-ctv-csfs-imp=
roves-bitvm-bridges/1591/23">https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/how-ctv-csfs-impr=
oves-bitvm-bridges/1591/23</a></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">To me this emphasizes that preserving legacy CTV is a good move now; t=
hat<br>way BitVM can meet its needs while more generic, ergonomic mechanism=
s<br>like TXHASH undergo design and debate.</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div=
><div>James</div></div>
<p></p>
-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bitcoind=
ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
bitcoindev/CAPfvXfJNAh1OiCdQ0K0_8A7OkPPb72jrL5J685j%3D7T5UDtALUw%40mail.gma=
il.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.com/d/=
msgid/bitcoindev/CAPfvXfJNAh1OiCdQ0K0_8A7OkPPb72jrL5J685j%3D7T5UDtALUw%40ma=
il.gmail.com</a>.<br />
--0000000000000a88fa06375011ba--
|