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Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2025 09:19:59 +0000
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
From: "'ArmchairCryptologist' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Proposal for Quantum-Resistant Address Migration
 Protocol (QRAMP) BIP
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One major issue with a mandatory transition to quantum-resistant addresses =
that I haven't seen brought up is that block size is limited. In such a sce=
nario, it could be highly beneficial for parties that benefit from high fee=
s to flood the network with bogus transactions to force the fees arbitraril=
y high, since people would then be forced to either pay exorbitant fees to =
move their funds by the deadline, or lose their funds entirely. As such, th=
is does not seem like a good idea in general, at least unless the transitio=
n period is extremely long (say 10 years or more).

A less drastic proposal could be to (at least initially) only disable spend=
ing from the less common outputs that have no inherent quantum resistance b=
y virtue of having a hashed public key, such as P2PK and P2TR, while leavin=
g the safer variants with hashed public keys like P2PKH and P2WPKH spendabl=
e. Most analyses of quantum algorithms I have read suggest that at least in=
itially, they would take a significant amount of time to calculate a privat=
e key even if the public key is known, which means that even if there were =
a quantum breakthrough, there should be a relatively low chance of having f=
unds intercepted between broadcasting it (which would of course reveal the =
public key) and having it included in a block. Furthermore, there would alw=
ays be the option of only revealing the transaction to a trusted miner rath=
er than broadcasting it, foregoing the risk entirely.

UTXOs with hashed public keys might still need to be disabled at some point=
, seeing as a non-insignificant number of them have a revealed public key d=
ue to address reuse, and that quantum computers might eventually reach the =
point where the chance of breaking a private key after broadcasting but bef=
ore block inclusion is non-insignificant, but this should at least alleviat=
e the initial rush of disabling everything at once.

--
Best,
ArmchairCryptologist

On Sunday, March 9th, 2025 at 1:53 AM, Agustin Cruz <agustin.cruz@gmail.com=
> wrote:

> Hi Michal,
>
> I completely understand your point of view. However, the concern with QRA=
MP isn=E2=80=99t about arbitrarily punishing users or confiscating assets w=
ithout reason. Rather, it=E2=80=99s about mitigating a very real, systemic =
risk. If a significant amount of funds remains in legacy addresses and a qu=
antum breakthrough occurs, the attack wouldn=E2=80=99t be a one-off inciden=
t targeting a few unlucky individuals. Instead, it could compromise the sec=
urity of the entire network, affecting countless users and shaking confiden=
ce in Bitcoin as a whole.
>
> The enforcement aspect of QRAMP is intended as a last-resort safety mecha=
nism after a long and well-communicated migration period. It=E2=80=99s desi=
gned to ensure that by the time any quantum-capable adversary comes along, =
almost everyone=E2=80=99s funds are protected by quantum-resistant cryptogr=
aphy. The goal is to preempt a scenario where the vulnerability becomes so =
widespread that a malicious actor could trigger a massive, destabilizing re=
allocation of wealth.
>
> The enforced migration is less about penalizing users and more about pres=
erving the long-term security and stability of the network for everyone.
>
> Best regards,
> Agustin
>
> El s=C3=A1b, 8 de mar de 2025, 9:22=E2=80=AFp. m., Michal Koles=C3=A1r <m=
ichal@zeleny-ctverec.cz> escribi=C3=B3:
>
>> Dear Agustin,
>>
>> enforcement in general doesn=E2=80=99t seem like a good choice to me. If=
 I were to compare it to the real world, it=E2=80=99s as if people had mone=
y or jewelry in bank vaults that were unbreakable at the time they were sto=
red. After a certain period, it=E2=80=99s discovered that these vaults coul=
d be breached, and we=E2=80=99d tell everyone they have to buy new vaults a=
nd move their diamonds, gold, and banknotes into them. If they don=E2=80=99=
t do it, everything in their old vaults would be confiscated and destroyed.=
 Surely, it=E2=80=99s normal that people would naturally buy new vaults (or=
 move to safer ones) if they=E2=80=99re informed well in advance and loudly=
 enough about the outdated vaults. And if they decide not to replace them, =
someone will eventually break in sooner or later and become the new owner o=
f their "wealth." That=E2=80=99s how it works in the real world, after all.=
 Yes, perhaps if someone steals a large amount of Bitcoin en masse, it migh=
t temporarily lower its value. But that=E2=80=99s fine=E2=80=94it would jus=
t redistribute old, lost, or unused Bitcoins into new ownership, where some=
one would start using them. It=E2=80=99s like finding a lost treasure from =
the past at the bottom of the ocean.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Michal
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 12, 2025 at 1:10:17=E2=80=AFAM UTC+1 Agustin Cruz=
 wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Bitcoin Developers,
>>>
>>> I am writing to share my proposal for a new Bitcoin Improvement Proposa=
l (BIP) titled Quantum-Resistant Address Migration Protocol (QRAMP). The go=
al of this proposal is to safeguard Bitcoin against potential future quantu=
m attacks by enforcing a mandatory migration period for funds held in legac=
y Bitcoin addresses (secured by ECDSA) to quantum-resistant addresses.
>>>
>>> The proposal outlines:
>>>
>>> - Reducing Vulnerabilities: Transitioning funds to quantum-resistant sc=
hemes preemptively to eliminate the risk posed by quantum attacks on expose=
d public keys.
>>> - Enforcing Timelines: A hard migration deadline that forces timely act=
ion, rather than relying on a gradual, voluntary migration that might leave=
 many users at risk.
>>> - Balancing Risks: Weighing the non-trivial risk of funds being permane=
ntly locked against the potential catastrophic impact of a quantum attack o=
n Bitcoin=E2=80=99s security.
>>>
>>> Additionally, the proposal addresses common criticisms such as the risk=
 of permanent fund loss, uncertain quantum timelines, and the potential for=
 chain splits. It also details backwards compatibility measures, comprehens=
ive security considerations, an extensive suite of test cases, and a refere=
nce implementation plan that includes script interpreter changes, wallet so=
ftware updates, and network monitoring tools.
>>>
>>> For your convenience, I have published the full proposal on my GitHub r=
epository. You can review it at the following link:
>>>
>>> [Quantum-Resistant Address Migration Protocol (QRAMP) Proposal on GitHu=
b](https://github.com/chucrut/bips/blob/master/bip-xxxxx.md)
>>>
>>> I welcome your feedback and suggestions and look forward to engaging in=
 a constructive discussion on how best to enhance the security and resilien=
ce of the Bitcoin network in the quantum computing era.
>>>
>>> Thank you for your time and consideration.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Agustin Cruz
>>
>> --
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>
> --
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<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">One major i=
ssue with a mandatory transition to quantum-resistant addresses that I have=
n't seen brought up is that block size is limited. In such a scenario, it c=
ould be highly beneficial for parties that benefit from high fees to flood =
the network with bogus transactions to force the fees arbitrarily high, sin=
ce people would then be forced to either pay exorbitant fees to move their =
funds by the deadline, or lose their funds entirely. As such, this does not=
 seem like a good idea in general, at least unless the transition period is=
 extremely long (say 10 years or more).</div><div style=3D"font-family: Ari=
al, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family: Aria=
l, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">A less drastic proposal could be to (at le=
ast initially) only disable spending from the less common outputs that have=
 no inherent quantum resistance by virtue of having a hashed public key, su=
ch as P2PK and P2TR, while leaving the safer variants with hashed public ke=
ys like P2PKH and P2WPKH spendable. <span></span><span>Most
 analyses of quantum algorithms I have read suggest that at least=20
initially, they would take a significant amount of time to calculate a priv=
ate key even if the public key is known, which means that even if there wer=
e a quantum breakthrough, there should be a relatively low chance of having=
 funds intercepted between broadcasting it (which would of course reveal th=
e public key) and having it included in a block. Furthermore, there would a=
lways be the option of only revealing the transaction to a trusted miner ra=
ther than broadcasting it, foregoing the risk entirely.</span></div><div st=
yle=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br> </div><div st=
yle=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">UTXOs with hashed =
public keys might still need to be disabled at some point, seeing as a non-=
insignificant number of them have a revealed public key due to address reus=
e, and that quantum computers might eventually reach the point where the ch=
ance of breaking a private key after broadcasting but before block inclusio=
n is non-insignificant, but this should at least alleviate the initial rush=
 of disabling everything at once.</div><div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sa=
ns-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, =
255, 255);"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-si=
ze: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">--</d=
iv><div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rg=
b(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Best,</div><div style=3D=
"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); back=
ground-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">ArmchairCryptologist</div><div style=3D"=
font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); backg=
round-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div class=3D"protonmail_quote"=
>
        On Sunday, March 9th, 2025 at 1:53 AM, Agustin Cruz &lt;agustin.cru=
z@gmail.com&gt; wrote:<br>
        <blockquote class=3D"protonmail_quote" type=3D"cite">
            <div dir=3D"auto"><p dir=3D"ltr">Hi Michal,</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">I completely understand your point of view. However, the con=
cern with QRAMP isn=E2=80=99t about arbitrarily punishing users or confisca=
ting assets without reason. Rather, it=E2=80=99s about mitigating a very re=
al, systemic risk. If a significant amount of funds remains in legacy addre=
sses and a quantum breakthrough occurs, the attack wouldn=E2=80=99t be a on=
e-off incident targeting a few unlucky individuals. Instead, it could compr=
omise the security of the entire network, affecting countless users and sha=
king confidence in Bitcoin as a whole.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">The enforcement aspect of QRAMP is intended as a last-resort=
 safety mechanism after a long and well-communicated migration period. It=
=E2=80=99s designed to ensure that by the time any quantum-capable adversar=
y comes along, almost everyone=E2=80=99s funds are protected by quantum-res=
istant cryptography. The goal is to preempt a scenario where the vulnerabil=
ity becomes so widespread that a malicious actor could trigger a massive, d=
estabilizing reallocation of wealth.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">The enforced migration is less about penalizing users and mo=
re about preserving the long-term security and stability of the network for=
 everyone.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Best regards,<br>
Agustin</p></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div =
class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">El s=C3=A1b, 8 de mar de 2025, 9:22=E2=80=
=AFp. m., Michal Koles=C3=A1r &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michal@zeleny-ctverec.c=
z" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener">michal@zeleny-ctverec.cz</a>&gt; es=
cribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div style=3D"font-fam=
ily: sans-serif; color: black; background-color: transparent;">Dear Agustin=
,</div><div style=3D"font-family: sans-serif; color: black; background-colo=
r: transparent;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family: sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; background-color: transparent;">enforcement in general doesn=E2=80=99t=
 seem like a good choice to me. If I were to compare it to the real world, =
it=E2=80=99s as if people had money or jewelry in bank vaults that were unb=
reakable at the time they were stored. After a certain period, it=E2=80=99s=
 discovered that these vaults could be breached, and we=E2=80=99d tell ever=
yone they have to buy new vaults and move their diamonds, gold, and banknot=
es into them. If they don=E2=80=99t do it, everything in their old vaults w=
ould be confiscated and destroyed. Surely, it=E2=80=99s normal that people =
would naturally buy new vaults (or move to safer ones) if they=E2=80=99re i=
nformed well in advance and loudly enough about the outdated vaults. And if=
 they decide not to replace them, someone will eventually break in sooner o=
r later and become the new owner of their "wealth." That=E2=80=99s how it w=
orks in the real world, after all. Yes, perhaps if someone steals a large a=
mount of Bitcoin en masse, it might temporarily lower its value. But that=
=E2=80=99s fine=E2=80=94it would just redistribute old, lost, or unused Bit=
coins into new ownership, where someone would start using them. It=E2=80=99=
s like finding a lost treasure from the past at the bottom of the ocean.</d=
iv><div style=3D"font-family: sans-serif; color: black; background-color: t=
ransparent;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family: sans-serif; color: black;=
 background-color: transparent;">Best regards,</div><div style=3D"font-fami=
ly: sans-serif; color: black; background-color: transparent;">Michal</div><=
br><div><div dir=3D"auto">On Wednesday, February 12, 2025 at 1:10:17=E2=80=
=AFAM UTC+1 Agustin Cruz wrote:<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p sty=
le=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; color: r=
gb(34, 34, 34);">Dear Bitcoin Developers,</p><p style=3D"font-family: Arial=
, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">I am wr=
iting to share my proposal for a new Bitcoin Improvement Proposal (BIP) tit=
led <strong>Quantum-Resistant Address Migration Protocol (QRAMP)</strong>. =
The goal of this proposal is to safeguard Bitcoin against potential future =
quantum attacks by enforcing a mandatory migration period for funds held in=
 legacy Bitcoin addresses (secured by ECDSA) to quantum-resistant addresses=
.</p><p style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: smal=
l; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">The proposal outlines:</p><ul style=3D"font-fam=
ily: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; color: rgb(34, 34, 34)=
;"><li style=3D"margin-left:15px"><strong>Reducing Vulnerabilities:</strong=
> Transitioning funds to quantum-resistant schemes preemptively to eliminat=
e the risk posed by quantum attacks on exposed public keys.</li><li style=
=3D"margin-left:15px"><strong>Enforcing Timelines:</strong> A hard migratio=
n deadline that forces timely action, rather than relying on a gradual, vol=
untary migration that might leave many users at risk.</li><li style=3D"marg=
in-left:15px"><strong>Balancing Risks:</strong> Weighing the non-trivial ri=
sk of funds being permanently locked against the potential catastrophic imp=
act of a quantum attack on Bitcoin=E2=80=99s security.</li></ul><p style=3D=
"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; color: rgb(34=
, 34, 34);">Additionally, the proposal addresses common criticisms such as =
the risk of permanent fund loss, uncertain quantum timelines, and the poten=
tial for chain splits. It also details backwards compatibility measures, co=
mprehensive security considerations, an extensive suite of test cases, and =
a reference implementation plan that includes script interpreter changes, w=
allet software updates, and network monitoring tools.</p><p style=3D"font-f=
amily: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; color: rgb(34, 34, 3=
4);">For your convenience, I have published the full proposal on my GitHub =
repository. You can review it at the following link:</p><p style=3D"font-fa=
mily: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; color: rgb(34, 34, 34=
);"><a target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: rgb(17, 85, 204);" href=3D"https:/=
/github.com/chucrut/bips/blob/master/bip-xxxxx.md" rel=3D"noreferrer nofoll=
ow noopener">Quantum-Resistant Address Migration Protocol (QRAMP) Proposal =
on GitHub</a></p><p style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; fon=
t-size: small; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">I welcome your feedback and suggest=
ions and look forward to engaging in a constructive discussion on how best =
to enhance the security and resilience of the Bitcoin network in the quantu=
m computing era.</p><p style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
font-size: small; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Thank you for your time and cons=
ideration.</p><p style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: small; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);">Best regards,</p><p style=3D"font-fami=
ly: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);=
">Agustin Cruz</p></blockquote></div>

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