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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Removing OP_Return restrictions: Devil's Advocate Position
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> Op 21 mei 2025, om 04:10 heeft Bob Burnett <bob.burnett@barefootmining.co=
m> het volgende geschreven:

[..]
> =20
> That said, I suggest being very careful about projecting the current beha=
vior of major miners as the norm or representative of the future.  We are e=
xtremely early in the development of the mining industry and there is a hig=
h likelihood that over the next few years that there will a dramatic change=
 in the list of major miners =E2=80=93 and there very well may be changes i=
n the philosophies and priorities of these miners as well.=20

I don't know what your claim of "likely" is based on, but it's certainly po=
ssible. However, we have to design the protocol for the worst case behaviou=
r.

> Assuming that =E2=80=9Cmajor miners=E2=80=9D was meant to mean a group th=
at largely is comprised of pubcos, none of the major players in the mining =
industry have been doing it for long - with most going public very recently=
 (=E2=80=9922 and =E2=80=9923). =20

Here's a non-standard OP_RETURN mined by Eligius, not a pubco, in 2013:
https://mempool.space/nl/tx/d29c9c0e8e4d2a9790922af73f0b8d51f0bd4bb19940d9c=
f910ead8fbe85bc9b

One example is just an anecdote of course, perhaps you could present data t=
hat shows older industry players hardly mine non-standard transactions.

> Finally, I don=E2=80=99t see any compelling reason for a change in OP_RET=
URN policy or configurability.  I speak to a lot of other miners as well an=
d I don=E2=80=99t know of one a single one that feels any change is benefic=
ial to them now.  =20

It's not beneficial to large miners. They benefit from centralisation. It's=
 good for them to offer paid services that bypass standardness.

- Sjors

--=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=
=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mod=
e: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div><br></div><div><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><div>Op 21 mei 2025, om 04:10 heeft Bob Burnett &lt;bob.burnet=
t@barefootmining.com&gt; het volgende geschreven:</div></blockquote><div><b=
r></div>[..]<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvet=
ica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-w=
eight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; te=
xt-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-st=
roke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-si=
ze: 10pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">That said=
, I suggest being very careful about projecting the current behavior of maj=
or miners as the norm or representative of the future.&nbsp; We are extreme=
ly early in the development of the mining industry and there is a high like=
lihood that over the next few years that there will a dramatic change in th=
e list of major miners =E2=80=93 and there very well may be changes in the =
philosophies and priorities of these miners as well.&nbsp;</span></div></di=
v></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don't know what your claim of "l=
ikely" is based on, but it's certainly possible. However, we have to design=
 the protocol for the worst case behaviour.</div><div><br></div><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; car=
et-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style=
: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: norm=
al; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:=
 normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration=
: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Aptos, sa=
ns-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div st=
yle=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span=
 style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">Assuming that =E2=80=9Cmajor miners=E2=80=9D wa=
s meant to mean a group that largely is comprised of pubcos, none of the ma=
jor players in the mining industry have been doing it for long - with most =
going public very recently (=E2=80=9922 and =E2=80=9923).&nbsp;&nbsp;</span=
></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div>Here's a non-standard OP=
_RETURN mined by Eligius, not a pubco, in 2013:</div><div><a href=3D"https:=
//mempool.space/nl/tx/d29c9c0e8e4d2a9790922af73f0b8d51f0bd4bb19940d9cf910ea=
d8fbe85bc9b">https://mempool.space/nl/tx/d29c9c0e8e4d2a9790922af73f0b8d51f0=
bd4bb19940d9cf910ead8fbe85bc9b</a></div><div><br></div><div>One example is =
just an anecdote of course, perhaps you could present data that shows older=
 industry players hardly mine non-standard transactions.</div></div><div><b=
r></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D=
"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; fon=
t-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 4=
00; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-trans=
form: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-wid=
th: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in; font-size: 10pt=
; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">Finally=
, I don=E2=80=99t see any compelling reason for a change in OP_RETURN polic=
y or configurability.&nbsp; I speak to a lot of other miners as well and I =
don=E2=80=99t know of one a single one that feels any change is beneficial =
to them now.&nbsp; &nbsp;</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></d=
iv><div>It's not beneficial to large miners. They benefit from centralisati=
on. It's good for them to offer paid services that bypass standardness.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>- Sjors</div></div><br></body></html>

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