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From: "/dev /fd0" <alicexbtong@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2025 08:58:32 +0530
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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Workshops and Activation for CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY
 and CHECKSIGFROMSTACK
To: Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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Hi Antoine,

>  Why the 58 other names on the letter have not spent _their_ _free_ time
reviewing more CTV code ?

Some of them have reviewed CTV earlier in other pull requests and others
could be application developers who are interested in the use cases.

> https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg (can transfer
you the repo ownership if you wish so)

Thanks for sharing the link. I found the [taproot workshops][0] repository
useful as well. I will create a new repository for CTV-CSFS workshops,
meetings etc. to document everything.

Workshop #1

Time: 28 August 2025 15:00 UTC
Channel: #ctv-csfs-activation on libera.chat

- Review and understand [BIP 119][1]
- Create basic CTV transactions on signet

[0]: https://github.com/bitcoinops/taproot-workshop
[1]: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0119.mediawiki

/dev/fd0
floppy disk guy

On Thu, Aug 21, 2025 at 5:37=E2=80=AFAM Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail.=
com>
wrote:

> Hi Floppy,
>
> The call to review CTV has been published Jun. 9.
>
> On this letter, I can count ~60 names.
>
> Since the time of publication (2 months after), only 5 people have put a
> code review comment on #31989.
>
> Among the 5 people, only 2 were letter signatories (average-gary + stuxto=
).
>
> Why the 58 other names on the letter have not spent _their_ _free_ time
> reviewing more CTV code ?
>
> ...
>
> Now, of course anyone is free to patch CTV on top of knot and go to try
> the activation run with that.
>
> Personally, I still think we should aim for more neutral consensus
> development process...
>
> This was the intent with the bitcoin contracting primitives WG, done on a=
n
> open IRC chan.
>
> https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg (can transfer
> you the repo ownership if you wish so)
>
> Where rather to present a primitive proposal as a "done deal" from a "pow
> wow" of experts,
> the goal was to create a neutral online forum for discussion open to
> anyone in the world
> who self-estimate they qualify as an expert on bitcoin consensus...and
> humbly trying to
> do better than the mess of the 2015 - 2017 period w.r.t consensus changes=
.
>
> Best,
> Antoine
> OTS hash: 0d3c23682b630c9c85288ece8e1acae2f4a3c76254e16e36ccb6ca0fcef2556=
b
>
> Le lundi 18 ao=C3=BBt 2025 =C3=A0 15:43:54 UTC+1, /dev /fd0 a =C3=A9crit =
:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> IRC channel: #ctv-csfs-activation on libera.chat
>>
>> I [requested][0] the economic nodes to review different soft fork
>> proposals and share their opinion on 5 March 2025. Four entries were add=
ed
>> to the [wiki][1] and nobody has any objections to the proposals. Some
>> organizations do not want to publicly participate in this process to avo=
id
>> politics and drama.
>>
>> A [letter][2] was signed on 9 June 2025 by bitcoin developers to get mor=
e
>> core contributors involved in the review process. It was followed by a
>> [proposal][3] that makes a few changes to CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY and combin=
es
>> it with CHECKSIGFROMSTACK. Personally, I don't like that TEMPLATEHASH is
>> restricted to taproot and don't see anything wrong with
>> CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY. However, other developers may disagree with me and
>> have different opinion. I have created an IRC channel for workshops,
>> meetings, activation, etc.
>>
>> We can finalize a meeting schedule so we can use the IRC channel to move
>> closer to covenants activation on bitcoin.
>>
>> I think BIP 8 would be a better option for the next soft fork.
>> [Previously][4], some suggestions were [rejected][5] because knots was n=
ot
>> used by a large number of users. However, things have changed since then
>> and [~15%][6] of nodes use knots for bitcoin.
>>
>> [0]: https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/kd8g8V1NVOY/m/nE2y5V66AQAJ
>> [1]: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Covenants_support
>> [2]: https://ctv-csfs.com/
>> [3]: https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/5wLThgegha4/m/iUWIZPIaCAAJ
>> [4]:
>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAFvNmHS4s_MbXP8o3kWmaUZ5...@mail.gmail=
.com/
>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAFvNmHS4s_MbXP8o3kWmaUZ5Xks1b76jSDymp=
1Bjr--4R8_v3Q@mail.gmail.com/>
>> [5]:
>> https://diyhpl.us/cgit/pi-bitcoindev/plain/cc/877bbc8de83e7aa4d2252a0473=
d05d634946b4/dev/fd0
>> [6]: https://bitnodes.io/nodes/?q=3Dknots#network-snapshot
>>
>> /dev/fd0
>> floppy disk guy
>>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Antoine,<br><br>&gt; =C2=A0Why the 58 other names on th=
e letter have not spent _their_ _free_ time reviewing more CTV code ?<br><b=
r>Some of them have reviewed CTV earlier in other pull requests and others =
could be application developers who are interested in the use cases.<br><br=
>&gt; <a href=3D"https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-w=
g">https://github.com/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg</a> (can tra=
nsfer you the repo ownership if you wish so)<br><br>Thanks for sharing the =
link. I found the [taproot workshops][0] repository useful as well. I will =
create a new repository for CTV-CSFS workshops, meetings etc. to document e=
verything.<br><br>Workshop #1<br><br>Time: 28 August 2025 15:00 UTC<br>Chan=
nel: #ctv-csfs-activation on libera.chat<br><br>- Review and understand [BI=
P 119][1]<br>- Create basic CTV transactions on signet<br><br>[0]: <a href=
=3D"https://github.com/bitcoinops/taproot-workshop">https://github.com/bitc=
oinops/taproot-workshop</a><br>[1]: <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/b=
ips/blob/master/bip-0119.mediawiki">https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/ma=
ster/bip-0119.mediawiki</a><br><br>/dev/fd0<br>floppy disk guy</div><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gma=
il_attr">On Thu, Aug 21, 2025 at 5:37=E2=80=AFAM Antoine Riard &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:antoine.riard@gmail.com">antoine.riard@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Floppy,<br><b=
r>The call to review CTV has been published Jun. 9.<br><br>On this letter, =
I can count ~60 names.<br><br>Since the time of publication (2 months after=
), only 5 people have put a code review comment on #31989.<br><br>Among the=
 5 people, only 2 were letter signatories (average-gary + stuxto).<br><br>W=
hy the 58 other names on the letter have not spent _their_ _free_ time revi=
ewing more CTV code ?<br><br>...<br><br>Now, of course anyone is free to pa=
tch CTV on top of knot and go to try the activation run with that.<br><br>P=
ersonally, I still think we should aim for more neutral consensus developme=
nt process...<br><br>This was the intent with the bitcoin contracting primi=
tives WG, done on an open IRC chan.<br><br><a href=3D"https://github.com/ar=
iard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg" target=3D"_blank">https://github.co=
m/ariard/bitcoin-contracting-primitives-wg</a> (can transfer you the repo o=
wnership if you wish so)<br><br>Where rather to present a primitive proposa=
l as a &quot;done deal&quot; from a &quot;pow wow&quot; of experts,<br>the =
goal was to create a neutral online forum for discussion open to anyone in =
the world<br>who self-estimate they qualify as an expert on bitcoin consens=
us...and humbly trying to<br>do better than the mess of the 2015 - 2017 per=
iod w.r.t consensus changes.<br><br>Best,<br>Antoine<br>OTS hash: 0d3c23682=
b630c9c85288ece8e1acae2f4a3c76254e16e36ccb6ca0fcef2556b<br><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_attr">Le lundi 18 ao=C3=
=BBt 2025 =C3=A0 15:43:54 UTC+1, /dev /fd0 a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<br></div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi everyone=
,<br><br>IRC channel: #ctv-csfs-activation on libera.chat<br><br>I [request=
ed][0] the economic nodes to review different soft fork proposals and share=
 their opinion on 5 March 2025. Four entries were added to the [wiki][1] an=
d nobody has any objections to the proposals. Some organizations do not wan=
t to publicly participate in this process to avoid politics and drama.<br><=
br>A [letter][2] was signed on 9 June 2025 by bitcoin developers to get mor=
e core contributors involved in the review process. It was followed by a [p=
roposal][3] that makes a few changes to CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY and combines it=
 with CHECKSIGFROMSTACK. Personally, I don&#39;t like that TEMPLATEHASH is =
restricted to taproot and don&#39;t see anything wrong with CHECKTEMPLATEVE=
RIFY. However, other developers may disagree with me and have different opi=
nion. I have created an IRC channel for workshops, meetings, activation, et=
c. <br><br>We can finalize a meeting schedule so we can use the IRC channel=
 to move closer to covenants activation on bitcoin.<br><br>I think BIP 8 wo=
uld be a better option for the next soft fork. [Previously][4], some sugges=
tions were [rejected][5] because knots was not used by a large number of us=
ers. However, things have changed since then and [~15%][6] of nodes use kno=
ts for bitcoin.<br><br>[0]: <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoind=
ev/c/kd8g8V1NVOY/m/nE2y5V66AQAJ" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">https:/=
/groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/kd8g8V1NVOY/m/nE2y5V66AQAJ</a><br>[1]: <a=
 href=3D"https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Covenants_support" rel=3D"nofollow" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Covenants_support</a><br>[2]: <a =
href=3D"https://ctv-csfs.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">https://c=
tv-csfs.com/</a><br>[3]: <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/=
c/5wLThgegha4/m/iUWIZPIaCAAJ" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">https://gr=
oups.google.com/g/bitcoindev/c/5wLThgegha4/m/iUWIZPIaCAAJ</a><br>[4]: <a hr=
ef=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAFvNmHS4s_MbXP8o3kWmaUZ5Xks1b76jSDy=
mp1Bjr--4R8_v3Q@mail.gmail.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">https:/=
/gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAFvNmHS4s_MbXP8o3kWmaUZ5...@mail.gmail.com/</a><=
br>[5]: <a href=3D"https://diyhpl.us/cgit/pi-bitcoindev/plain/cc/877bbc8de8=
3e7aa4d2252a0473d05d634946b4/dev/fd0" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://diyhpl.us/cgit/pi-bitcoindev/plain/cc/877bbc8de83e7aa4d2252a0473d05d6=
34946b4/dev/fd0</a><br>[6]:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://bitnodes.io/nodes/?q=3D=
knots#network-snapshot" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">https://bitnodes=
.io/nodes/?q=3Dknots#network-snapshot</a><br><br>/dev/fd0<br>floppy disk gu=
y</div>
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