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From: Kree Love <f@kreelove.com>
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To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 18:06:17 -0500
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I have been meaning to respond to this thread earlier, but better late =
than never.

"want bitcoin to be money and money means different things for people in =
this world=E2=80=9D

The definition of money is very subjective; when I began my involvement =
with this project in Late 2010. It was a lot closer to my personal =
definition of money, being an electronic cash system, whilst =
transparent, we did not have dedicated corporations like Chainalysis, =
nor the level of regulation (AML/KYC/CFT). We were lucky to have forum =
cowboys to hunt down lost assets and even then, whether the exchange =
would acknowledge the findings was another kettle of fish.

In 2014, Me and many others were very much against Mike Hearn=E2=80=99s =
Colored Coins as it recorded a public consensus and held judgement =
against parties which could be misused and abused. Now we are in an era =
where private consensus recorded behind closed doors rules the roost and =
you risk forfeiting your Bitcoin by merely sending it to an exchange and =
if you=E2=80=99re lucky you may get asked intrusive questions and be =
allowed to have it returned to you.

Technically, the mandated application of the artificially rate limited =
block size has caused significant network congestion during any time of =
market turbulence and rallies. Whilst I support the development of =
Lightning Networks and Segregated Witness, it does not mean that the =
network should be subject to ever-increasing fees. When we had High =
Priority Transactions by Days Destroyed, I never had to worry about fees =
unless some security or situation-critical event happened. These =
unnecessary coin splits/forks that resulted in 2017 have made it =
confusing to the end-consumer and destroyed continuity to anyone new to =
the market.

With the ever-changing climate, it=E2=80=99s an accomplishment that =
Bitcoin has survived but I would consider it an Electronic Asset =
more-than an Electronic Peer-to-Peer Cash System contrary to the white =
paper, as it=E2=80=99s easier for the industry to rely on Bitcoin as a =
Reserve Currency to the maintain the value systems of alternative =
currencies. Any attempts to improve the fungibility of the protocol =
(such as CoinJoin) are met with regulatory hostility which then becomes =
external pressures on the developers and end-users.

We are now in a brave new world where different governments, industrial =
lobbies and cartels all want to have involvement in engineering the =
outcome of this project and we need to remember that the usability, the =
fungibility and practical applications are paramount to Bitcoin =
remaining a global currency, even if it=E2=80=99s not practical to be =
used as an electronic cash now without additional development within the =
eco-system and very strong developers who are able to make personal =
sacrifices to ensure continued development in the face of hostility.

NFTs are the result of hemorrhaging VC money and distracting the public =
on trivialities while hard work goes on in the background to ensure the =
reserve currency (Bitcoin) is safe. The current state is a status-quo =
that many do not want changing while it remains economically =
advantageous to them. We should do whatever is necessary to guarantee a =
free-as-in-freedom and global future for this project.

Kree Love
Early Adopter

>> On Mar 31, 2023, at 11:30 AM, alicexbt via bitcoin-dev =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi Steve and Bitcoin Developers,
>>=20
>> I have created a new thread as requested by one of the developers. I =
respect him and the readers of this list.
>>=20
>>> "want bitcoin to be money and money means different things for =
people in
>> this world"
>>=20
>>> I think we can all agree that a property of money is fungibility, =
and by
>> its very definition NFTs are not fungible and thus not money.
>>=20
>> Inscriptions do not affect fungibility of bitcoin:
>>=20
>> - There is no token standard being used. These are just sats being =
considered as inscription in an external protocol or explorer. Bitcoin =
nodes do not consider them as something special.
>> - Users can always sell those inscribed sats or UTXO as normal =
bitcoin on bisq or any exchange.
>> - They can use different amounts for it using tools like =
https://raritygarden.inscribetheplanet.com/ which is created by super =
testnet who is active dev in bitcoin and ln.
>> - Inscribed sats are different from Ethereum tokens because they will =
never go to zero and you can always consolidate lot of them to use as =
normal bitcoin.
>>=20
>> Bitcoin fungibility is anyways debatable and I cannot change anything =
about it even though working on a coinjoin implmentation as some post =
mix UTXOs are censored on some exchanges and its easy to identify them. =
Some coinjoin implementation themselves work with chain analysis =
companies to censor inputs used for rounds.
>>=20
>> Ordinals theory is a parallel universe in which some users believe in =
and they have been trying to learn how bitcoin works. Example: I did =
call with someone this evening to explain how PSBT and multisig works =
who never used bitcoin before
>>=20
>> Developers are interested to build things and they have tried to =
create BIP, DEX, look for libraries, ask questions, projects =
implementing PSBT etc.
>>=20
>> I do not live in first world country and do not attend bitdevs but =
always wanted bitcoin to be here. I have tried my best but failed. =
Please let people do what they want with bitcoin without changing =
consensus rules. It will help Bitcoin.
>>=20
>> /dev/fd0
>> floppy disk guy
>>=20
>>=20
>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>=20


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Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">I =
have been meaning to respond to this thread earlier, but better late =
than never.<br class=3D""><div><font color=3D"#5856d6" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(88, 86, 214);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font>"want bitcoin to be money and money means =
different things for people in this world=E2=80=9D<br class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#5856d6" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(88, 86, =
214);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></font>The definition of money =
is very subjective; when I began my involvement with this project in =
Late 2010. It was a lot closer to my personal definition of money, being =
an electronic cash system, whilst transparent, we did not have dedicated =
corporations like Chainalysis, nor the level of regulation =
(AML/KYC/CFT). We were lucky to have forum cowboys to hunt down lost =
assets and even then, whether the exchange would acknowledge the =
findings was another kettle of fish.<br class=3D""><font color=3D"#5856d6"=
 class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(88, 86, 214);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font>In 2014, Me and many others were very much =
against Mike Hearn=E2=80=99s Colored Coins as it recorded a public =
consensus and held judgement against parties which could be misused and =
abused. Now we are in an era where private consensus recorded behind =
closed doors rules the roost and you risk forfeiting your Bitcoin by =
merely sending it to an exchange and if you=E2=80=99re lucky you may get =
asked intrusive questions and be allowed to have it returned to you.<br =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#5856d6" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(88, 86, 214);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></font>Technically, =
the mandated application of the artificially rate limited block size has =
caused significant network congestion during any time of market =
turbulence and rallies. Whilst I support the development of Lightning =
Networks and Segregated Witness, it does not mean that the network =
should be subject to ever-increasing fees. When we had High Priority =
Transactions by Days Destroyed, I never had to worry about fees unless =
some security or situation-critical event happened. These unnecessary =
coin splits/forks that resulted in 2017 have made it confusing to the =
end-consumer and destroyed continuity to anyone new to the market.<br =
class=3D""><font color=3D"#5856d6" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(88, 86, 214);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></font>With the =
ever-changing climate, it=E2=80=99s an accomplishment that Bitcoin has =
survived but I would consider it an Electronic Asset more-than an =
Electronic Peer-to-Peer Cash System contrary to the white paper, as =
it=E2=80=99s easier for the industry to rely on Bitcoin as a Reserve =
Currency to the maintain the value systems of alternative currencies. =
Any attempts to improve the fungibility of the protocol (such as =
CoinJoin) are met with regulatory hostility which then becomes external =
pressures on the developers and end-users.<br class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#5856d6" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(88, 86, =
214);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></font>We are now in a brave new =
world where different governments, industrial lobbies and cartels all =
want to have involvement in engineering the outcome of this project and =
we need to remember that the usability, the fungibility and practical =
applications are paramount to Bitcoin remaining a global currency, even =
if it=E2=80=99s not practical to be used as an electronic cash now =
without additional development within the eco-system and very strong =
developers who are able to make personal sacrifices to ensure continued =
development in the face of hostility.<br class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#5856d6" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(88, 86, =
214);" class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></font>NFTs are the result of =
hemorrhaging VC money and distracting the public on trivialities while =
hard work goes on in the background to ensure the reserve currency =
(Bitcoin) is safe. The current state is a status-quo that many do not =
want changing while it remains economically advantageous to them. We =
should do whatever is necessary to guarantee a free-as-in-freedom and =
global future for this project.<br class=3D""><font color=3D"#5856d6" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(88, 86, 214);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span></font>Kree Love<br class=3D"">Early =
Adopter</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div=
 class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"content-isolator__container"><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">On Mar 31, 2023, at 11:30 AM, alicexbt via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" =
class=3D"">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Hi Steve and Bitcoin Developers,<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">I have created a new thread as requested by =
one of the developers. I respect him and the readers of this list.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">"want =
bitcoin to be money and money means different things for people in<br =
class=3D""></blockquote>this world"<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">I think we can all agree =
that a property of money is fungibility, and by<br =
class=3D""></blockquote>its very definition NFTs are not fungible and =
thus not money.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Inscriptions do not affect =
fungibility of bitcoin:<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">- There is no token =
standard being used. These are just sats being considered as inscription =
in an external protocol or explorer. Bitcoin nodes do not consider them =
as something special.<br class=3D"">- Users can always sell those =
inscribed sats or UTXO as normal bitcoin on bisq or any exchange.<br =
class=3D"">- They can use different amounts for it using tools like <a =
href=3D"https://raritygarden.inscribetheplanet.com/" =
class=3D"">https://raritygarden.inscribetheplanet.com/</a> which is =
created by super testnet who is active dev in bitcoin and ln.<br =
class=3D"">- Inscribed sats are different from Ethereum tokens because =
they will never go to zero and you can always consolidate lot of them to =
use as normal bitcoin.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Bitcoin fungibility =
is anyways debatable and I cannot change anything about it even though =
working on a coinjoin implmentation as some post mix UTXOs are censored =
on some exchanges and its easy to identify them. Some coinjoin =
implementation themselves work with chain analysis companies to censor =
inputs used for rounds.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Ordinals theory is =
a parallel universe in which some users believe in and they have been =
trying to learn how bitcoin works. Example: I did call with someone this =
evening to explain how PSBT and multisig works who never used bitcoin =
before<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Developers are interested to build =
things and they have tried to create BIP, DEX, look for libraries, ask =
questions, projects implementing PSBT etc.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">I =
do not live in first world country and do not attend bitdevs but always =
wanted bitcoin to be here. I have tried my best but failed. Please let =
people do what they want with bitcoin without changing consensus rules. =
It will help Bitcoin.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">/dev/fd0<br =
class=3D"">floppy disk guy<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Sent with Proton Mail secure email.<br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">bitcoin-dev mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" =
class=3D"">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev<=
br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></body></html>=

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