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From: Jared Lee Richardson <jaredr26@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 19:01:49 -0700
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] High fees / centralization
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That would be blockchain sharding.
Would be amazing if someone could figure out how to do it trustlessly. So
far I'm not convinced it is possible to resolve the conflicts between the
shards and commit transactions between shards.
On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Vladimir Zaytsev <
vladimir.zaytsev@gmail.com> wrote:
> There must be a way to organize =E2=80=9Cbranches=E2=80=9D of smaller act=
ivity to join
> main tree after they grow. Outsider a bit, I see going circles here, but
> not everything must be accepted in the chain. Good idea as it is, it=E2=
=80=99s just
> too early to record every sight=E2=80=A6.
>
>
>
> On Mar 30, 2017, at 5:52 PM, Jared Lee Richardson via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> > Further, we are very far from the point (in my appraisal) where fees
> are high enough to block home users from using the network.
>
> This depends entirely on the usecase entirely. Most likely even without =
a
> blocksize increase, home purchases will be large enough to fit on the
> blocksize in the forseeable future. Microtransactions(<$0.25) on the oth=
er
> hand aren't viable no matter what we try to do - There's just too much da=
ta.
>
> Most likely, transaction fees above $1 per tx will become unappealing for
> many consumers, and above $10 is likely to be niche-level. It is hard to
> say with any certainty, but average credit card fees give us some
> indications to work with - $1.2 on a $30 transaction, though paid by the
> business and not the consumer.
>
> Without blocksize increases, fees higher than $1/tx are basically
> inevitable, most likely before 2020. Running a node only costs $10/month
> if that. If we were going to favor node operational costs that highly in
> the weighting, we'd better have a pretty solid justification with
> mathematical models or examples.
>
> > We should not throw away the core innovation of monetary sovereignty in
> pursuit of supporting 0.1% of the world's daily transactions.
>
> If we can easily have both, why not have both?
>
> An altcoin with both will take Bitcoin's monetary sovereignty crown by
> default. No crown, no usecases, no Bitcoin.
>
>
>
>
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr">That would be blockchain sharding.<br><br>Would be amazing=
if someone could figure out how to do it trustlessly.=C2=A0 So far I'm=
not convinced it is possible to resolve the conflicts between the shards a=
nd commit transactions between shards.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Vladimir Zaytse=
v <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:vladimir.zaytsev@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">vladimir.zaytsev@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>There must be=
a way to organize =E2=80=9Cbranches=E2=80=9D of smaller activity to join m=
ain tree after they grow. Outsider a bit, I see going circles here, but not=
everything must be accepted in the chain. Good idea as it is, it=E2=80=99s=
just too early to record every sight=E2=80=A6.</div><span class=3D""><div>=
<br></div><div><br></div><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Mar 30,=
2017, at 5:52 PM, Jared Lee Richardson via bitcoin-dev <<a href=3D"mail=
to:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lis=
ts.<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_161036365440=
3453300Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">>=C2=A0<span sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.8px">Further, we are very far from the point (in my appr=
aisal) where fees are high enough to block home users from using the networ=
k.</span><div><br>This depends entirely on the usecase entirely.=C2=A0 Most=
likely even without a blocksize increase, home purchases will be large eno=
ugh to fit on the blocksize in the forseeable future.=C2=A0 Microtransactio=
ns(<$0.25) on the other hand aren't viable no matter what we try to =
do - There's just too much data.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Most likely, transaction fees above $1 per t=
x will become unappealing for many consumers, and above $10 is likely to be=
niche-level.=C2=A0 It is hard to say with any certainty, but average credi=
t card fees give us some indications to work with - $1.2 on a $30 transacti=
on, though paid by the business and not the consumer.<br><br>Without blocks=
ize increases, fees higher than $1/tx are basically inevitable, most likely=
before 2020.=C2=A0 Running a node only costs $10/month if that.=C2=A0 If w=
e were going to favor node operational costs that highly in the weighting, =
we'd better have a pretty solid justification with mathematical models =
or examples.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>>=C2=A0<span style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.8px">We should not throw away the core innovation of monetary s=
overeignty in pursuit of supporting 0.1% of the world's daily transacti=
ons.<br></span><br>If we can easily have both, why not have both?<br><br>An=
altcoin with both will take Bitcoin's monetary sovereignty crown by de=
fault.=C2=A0 No crown, no usecases, no Bitcoin.</div><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div></div></div></blockquot=
e></div><br></span></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
--94eb2c07adbc543f2a054bfd3105--
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