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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Multisign payment protocol?
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I was trying to use bip10 for multisig and coinjoin, but there was a
problem with it. I'll have to look back at my notes, but I thought I
sent you a message about it. And then real life swallowed my bitcoin time...
I think the bottom line was that it would be useful in the generic case
with just one minor change. If there is interest, and it sounds like
there just may be, I can dust off my notes and see where I left it.
Probably should do it soon before someone implements it in PB or XML.
Alan Reiner wrote:
> Then of course I tried to do this with BIP 10
> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0010.mediawiki> when
> Armory implemented offline-transactions two years ago. I got some
> positive feedback, but no one wanted to help improve it, etc. I guess
> nobody else was doing it and/or cared at the time. So I continue to
> use BIP 10 even though it's pretty crappy. I wanted it to be useful
> for multisig, too, but it has some deficiencies there (it was done
> when Armory was extremely young and OP_EVAL was still on the table).
>
> However, with all this activity, we should start thinking about that
> and discussing it. Otherwise, I'll just do my own thing again and
> probably end up with something that fits my own needs, but not anyone
> else's. Really though, multisig shouldn't require all the same app to
> work.
>
> -Alan
>
>
> On 03/10/2014 01:49 PM, Gavin Andresen wrote:
>> In my experience, best process for standardizing something is:
>>
>> 1) Somebody has a great idea
>> 2) They implement it
>> 3) Everybody agrees, "Great idea!" and they copy it.
>> 4) Idea gets refined by the people copying it.
>> 5) It gets standardized.
>>
>> Mutisig wallets are at step 2 right now. BIP is step 5, in my humble
>> opinion...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Drak <drak@zikula.org
>> <mailto:drak@zikula.org>> wrote:
>>
>> I was wondering if there would be merit in a kind of BIP for a
>> payment protocol using multisig?
>>
>> Currently, setting up a multisig is quite a feat. Users have to
>> exchange public keys, work out how to get the public keys from
>> their addresses. If one of the parties are not savvy enough, an
>> malicious party could easily be setup that was 2 of 3 instead of
>> 2 of 2 where the malicious party generates the multisig
>> address+script and thus be able to run off with funds anyway.
>>
>> It's also terribly complex to generate and keep track of. There's
>> been a nice attempt at creating an browser interface at
>> coinb.in/multisig <http://coinb.in/multisig> but it still lacks
>> the kind of ease with created by the payment protocol. If there
>> was a BIP then it would go a long way to aiding future usability
>> of multisig wallet implementations.
>>
>> What are your thoughts?
>>
>> Drak
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases
>> and their
>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> <mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Gavin Andresen
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
>> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
>> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
>> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
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http-equiv=3D"Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">I was trying to use bip10 for multisig
and coinjoin, but there was a problem with it.=A0 I'll have to look
back at my notes, but I thought I sent you a message about it.=A0
And then real life swallowed my bitcoin time...<br>
<br>
I think the bottom line was that it would be useful in the generic
case with just one minor change.=A0 If there is interest, and it
sounds like there just may be, I can dust off my notes and see
where I left it.=A0 Probably should do it soon before someone
implements it in PB or XML.<br>
<br>
Alan Reiner wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite=3D"mid:531DFDF8.80008@gmail.com" type=3D"cite">
<meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3DISO-8859-1"
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type">
Then of course I tried to do this with <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0010.mediawiki">B=
IP
10=A0</a> when Armory implemented offline-transactions two years
ago.=A0 I got some positive feedback, but no one wanted to help
improve it, etc.=A0 I guess nobody else was doing it and/or cared a=
t
the time.=A0 So I continue to use BIP 10 even though it's pretty
crappy.=A0 I wanted it to be useful for multisig, too, but it has
some deficiencies there (it was done when Armory was extremely
young and OP_EVAL was still on the table).<br>
<br>
However, with all this activity, we should start thinking about
that and discussing it.=A0 Otherwise, I'll just do my own thing
again and probably end up with something that fits my own needs,
but not anyone else's.=A0 Really though, multisig shouldn't require
all the same app to work.<br>
<br>
-Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 03/10/2014 01:49 PM, Gavin
Andresen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite=3D"mid:CABsx9T0SMi6Gp4JY=3DCpHxLEu5pVkvDmnug7PsY7m_dvtT7khzg@mail.gm=
ail.com"
type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">In my experience, best process for standardizing
something is:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) Somebody has a great idea</div>
<div>2) They implement it</div>
<div>3) Everybody agrees, "Great idea!" and they copy it.</div>
<div>4) Idea gets refined by the people copying it.</div>
<div>5) It gets standardized.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mutisig wallets are at step 2 right now. BIP is step 5,
in my humble opinion...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Dra=
k
<span dir=3D"ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
href=3D"mailto:drak@zikula.org" target=3D"_blank">drak@zi=
kula.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I was wondering if there would be merit in
a kind of BIP for a payment protocol using multisig?
<div><br>
<div>Currently, setting up a multisig is quite a feat.
Users have to exchange public keys, work out how to
get the public keys from their addresses. If one of
the parties are not savvy enough, an malicious party
could easily be setup that was 2 of 3 instead of 2
of 2 where the malicious party generates the
multisig address+script and thus be able to run off
with funds anyway.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's also terribly complex to generate and keep
track of. There's been a nice attempt at creating an
browser interface at <a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
href=3D"http://coinb.in/multisig" target=3D"_blank"=
>coinb.in/multisig</a>
but it still lacks the kind of ease with created by
the payment protocol. If there was a BIP then it
would go a long way to aiding future usability of
multisig wallet implementations.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What are your thoughts?</div>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Drak</div>
</font></span></div>
</div>
<br>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----<br>
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book<br>
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph
databases and their<br>
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the
field,<br>
this first edition is now available. Download your free
book today!<br>
<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech" target=3D"_bla=
nk">http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net"=
>Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitc=
oin-development"
target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/lis=
tinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
--<br>
Gavin Andresen<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap=3D"">--------------------------------------------------=
----------------------------
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and thei=
r
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http:=
//p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech">http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech</a></pre>
<br>
<fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap=3D"">_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"ma=
ilto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists=
.sourceforge.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true" class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https=
://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development">https://list=
s.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap=3D"">----------------------------------------------------=
--------------------------
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and thei=
r
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoT=
ech">http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech</a></pre>
<br>
<fieldset class=3D"mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap=3D"">_______________________________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@=
lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a>
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/=
lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/l=
istinfo/bitcoin-development</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
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