path: root/95/96029a3d53d4eda3daacb3814673ea6a437c20

Delivery-date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:27:24 -0800
Received: from mail-qk1-f187.google.com ([209.85.222.187])
	by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps  (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
	(Exim 4.94.2)
	(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBC3PT7FYWAMRBUVM4C6AMGQEO4TES2A@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1tcYVn-0004Bl-G1
	for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:27:24 -0800
Received: by mail-qk1-f187.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7b6ef813ed1sf717416685a.3
        for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:27:23 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1738020437; cv=pass;
        d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        b=KsH4VbmOAd2f9k3GiKa2ouf/3+hEcUL6UX495y0CYngIUzLqnDwaPVRV2uriL59p4Y
         bI03oPIdhYksM1eU6ab02jAykeZpWU40ubZKTXdbsxvde3plnfuDa6hLPghluNh/vKVC
         wYt+KCt/VIy60V4V3Cqq8jPt7tHmSr0e4+Zv4HtG5ix8PUK+HYBygSVTOtx+LIbgW+rk
         DsF+M+h59B3NmuPo05srazPOa+cDIxHRXl0KUR73odYs4yrNB0yriB2XFzT42BMW/swN
         W9BODSUmau4wPccqKve9cK04GGwT6lBJCM2iWkra0vqeLEOsCP//65Dwn4nB3slNpjir
         2npA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from
         :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:sender:dkim-signature
         :dkim-signature;
        bh=925urScImubRwfCXDUNb17gr+N2W3+tbraIUgwUlseo=;
        fh=wM9YqqU1zinDZJ/2f9pDu46cnSeltczSDtLvtXD17Fo=;
        b=OF3pvDjQfqwmnUJdfle4PW05GH0ZB33l6lBxG25k2JztFtmLKk0tSfGeIMvlgIkaJu
         j3OWCyeX9CbNQ9pdpcrlAl6Jx9NNGmJ6XAJwWkRrXZZzhtg88iyu2YxGOLesS+nQfz1a
         gR4Sv55Idzq7yGXmW8g9TEw8uomX3geOxEVC3+s3D31zmY6FcRvKA5aW4hTehmrTFI4T
         /a9FmSNiY099Pg+387VQGtXjvROWrgN4pATi8kgXaeaJU/V29Ojj6OYKbm+OWw2uOWOQ
         Qiu/VDU1ir9SGXi1uDpqBYsCxuXQhY77qGiyH284Lrvb9euXbXcw9eSc7739rdFDFXsV
         A6UQ==;
        darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
       dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b="U/AfY6iJ";
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of antoine.riard@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=antoine.riard@gmail.com;
       dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
       dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1738020437; x=1738625237; darn=gnusha.org;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
         :x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to
         :references:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
         :reply-to;
        bh=925urScImubRwfCXDUNb17gr+N2W3+tbraIUgwUlseo=;
        b=HHoiQpcz7IZSbU2oqhK9TD4Eio+lpOf+OWsxKhgBxyaXN/kH6qvFDb0wGLz5dnBi9p
         IZSUhzPHQrq2nAjgS7nzG3F1/TRZ6q4JVwXUBYEl07FCzus6CvImC6wTXmQjYdpJdOjW
         Um61ViZsaEjw9uqR9/T+P6EvRqbwH+YDXfwihqa+nh2VOI6kdpUEH7ouLnMDD9WHAqWk
         IFIlmVqlJ9TZm3NCLVkoj/pC8PtI6bhUJa228XrhTgigsMXos0GFNNm+nqiETf6NBc3v
         crDhLuncZBBmS6ijF+CbhzLnUC7y2ebq0ycy6BbMUkeFei9SvUYRjy20Ev35UJ1njEXz
         KDAQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1738020437; x=1738625237; darn=gnusha.org;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
         :x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to
         :references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
        bh=925urScImubRwfCXDUNb17gr+N2W3+tbraIUgwUlseo=;
        b=KlfN//Fn6qRSxSc8f3kTNEBFB0kbbPL1s6GCYcRrPNbV1qDUmStIHtjjsejIUyvCFi
         Fec2FrnonUuTs24Q91fVlMNIn1UwSm0uzOf42SHXTTjSr4OlNekE4HIoroUNdfg2I+SZ
         qiEw5hasoCeBsrdfzvKFImYujM5YEfNSjYSIS7EJc5hSLsOM0h33WKaT/haHns+N60xw
         BmeOAg3qzGAKOuXZOUGeWgjUrK7i4eLRnHPSFsbnXJasTAi2FuKS50rHMJK7wn+qUPTb
         q80g3ucnazHIX3juzhM4wuUMZ/23iih1fKdMSHiXpzYDjCw1H53rL2WrS2MecAxDpXQy
         8AZA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1738020437; x=1738625237;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
         :x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to
         :references:mime-version:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from
         :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
        bh=925urScImubRwfCXDUNb17gr+N2W3+tbraIUgwUlseo=;
        b=w6yYMWkVxwaqJWldTUYJ7XB49rLu1yaioQSc8Zx6WG3sYtMNuP+QyHEeTHAIEeA5Hz
         DvcGRIlmeHGQdRjUw7pFaHOqMYnjZs2dL1eTXS5EWFLk8Rc7dlDzvT7N6tbiWFRkp+BY
         eQ8IYrr3V1L6ObL1WYaobqsi7IUC4ySVk6ofBZg9m8qY2EDotXUbXS+T6WAv7NEAwOMn
         0+KZyk2cVooH73mQEQ1yrEFu+VPyJ2gjhAFASA7HTTAQIm7WuHS7+0IvSngKfLVgIds9
         D2wp2C0zVr0KQN+E/2vB1SKLBTP6S3XkeIIvRLkIeGoqN7PhkCmp20+yiDquvDLKOGn6
         hwkQ==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCXQNYBCyG4tGLrKV8frcHDPGpUZaQe25ajunzRv7hZY5eN3tXByFasTPGFYadDyS1jyHs5I98+RxKhs@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx+Ua2e5AclM0ZxL6F+X74M2Xi5tySxNf+dWrEON37xbf3SZpAo
	wRFdAMSL8Vvhssp+EZySlmw6Gwl+3W+MHSH5jsimgeq25QIYk3gs
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE7ZiOIE+le2ra+1DvmVMQzirQrTKFjmsw57CSoF3R9V57l+fbreFogutLTJ60jMYO7KXS7tQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:40b:b0:7be:6f05:1b46 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7be6f051d14mr4932675985a.57.1738020437285;
        Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:27:17 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
Received: by 2002:ac8:7cc:0:b0:463:f0e:44c6 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-46e5b3d7388ls3068021cf.0.-pod-prod-01-us;
 Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:27:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:4396:b0:7b1:48ff:6b56 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7be6327979emr6794298985a.43.1738020433960;
        Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:27:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 2002:a05:620a:319c:b0:7b6:67a8:4fcd with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7bff5151275ms85a;
        Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:01:15 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7d43:0:b0:467:5c9f:f8ef with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-46e12a1e6d9mr646183441cf.6.1738018874565;
        Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:01:14 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1738018874; cv=none;
        d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        b=UXenX6GSCXj3yx5bqlul/pyTxeNba0Umgjhtp7mGN6Xq0ttc/qnWdoxi8eSrcVbf/k
         4od4DRMC+54ccb/HwNL0omG9CdpCEmi8vcp04MT10pj3roBOa6JRDCQjlY8YytGwSxZd
         uhD+djutR1Gt3iyReeqrvjzatHsknV3pTnh5230IQQHfyOv/IdbXdthDkvhzRUxp3QTP
         3HImBevSA0OETpE9GvPwSc89f7Zz1qHV9xW1IGKHcFJ2KAHbMWtFWpfwWJOMgPt9Y9ZE
         wUhBsqtwcdbu7hHnt8ONPbrciUXI9z/krwImDCbKCmLhBWxftwyJMIszw4w9UWZQd/Gs
         Y77A==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references
         :mime-version:dkim-signature;
        bh=3gR8czNVluW02lAHGsUTwphXPzEr5QIrSgcw+7SkgSI=;
        fh=8IhWpdr4iOuTkOTm2gRZZk21cYhi2Q2zuRpS0v0v2JA=;
        b=ju8yMS1Nw1dqD7uwlkgI7hNXDWmkYZpQk9h+c8Yp5PDpD0wRijie21dDzk56fQ/x8D
         +iYxDYYCLwfrOudY2hA8wISt5NbLnmJLMnthOu4EoW6RCR/lVmXSGO7Vt5fB7Dj+9kNs
         bD30ymeaRPZiKcfk6GKcse0M0+HPSeOsmsm7PhYhsSGfZQrp3stV+IrRFOlyvK59POaA
         BgVjUtFVnaLHOwb5PjoxHKwGq+D8BbbQ4cs6ssocG1qoN8tgM68zUqLgtUhKZ+vlXKQ6
         kdDw6mgGQBG/srhI/wFrlVJCCCYrYlHm4ktVD/81c53n1Yg7dLT2wHygwRTpi6phXYSH
         n1Dg==;
        dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
       dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b="U/AfY6iJ";
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of antoine.riard@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=antoine.riard@gmail.com;
       dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
       dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
Received: from mail-pj1-x1033.google.com (mail-pj1-x1033.google.com. [2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d75a77b69052e-46e66b3fa56si3639351cf.4.2025.01.27.15.01.14
        for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
        Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:01:14 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of antoine.riard@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033;
Received: by mail-pj1-x1033.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2ee74291415so6620632a91.3
        for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>; Mon, 27 Jan 2025 15:01:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsQXxRAFZJffI3DxpH6mZc5izg0lNcrm4ze+APTeJP75AhKfm7vTrTi0uM+3xD
	5R3is1abzIsXPGcoe0yGdU2BO2KjBoMcU89TYEe5nBbY8ziy1XmTtz1ZCSaKk84E=
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:51c5:b0:2ee:d371:3227 with SMTP id
 98e67ed59e1d1-2f782c9cb13mr68942708a91.17.1738018873519; Mon, 27 Jan 2025
 15:01:13 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CALZpt+EnDUtfty3X=u2-2c5Q53Guc6aRdx0Z4D75D50ZXjsu2A@mail.gmail.com>
 <7aa8b4bd7c2d475ad07efb90d770fbd8@dtrt.org>
In-Reply-To: <7aa8b4bd7c2d475ad07efb90d770fbd8@dtrt.org>
From: Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 23:01:02 +0000
X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZkDWQ_GNNTqT1-zclaxu8V6VjrtPZYjqlHYA05LKLyp_BAryX-zo5wXUEE
Message-ID: <CALZpt+HyQyj6EUf39JX3nuD3izsmBSG9XUcV-EVrC05o2T=u7A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [FULL DISCLOSURE]: Replacement Cycling Attacks on
 Attacks on Bitcoin Miners Block Templates
To: "David A. Harding" <dave@dtrt.org>
Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>, security@ariard.me
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000091b60c062cb80d2b"
X-Original-Sender: antoine.riard@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       dkim=pass
 header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b="U/AfY6iJ";       spf=pass
 (google.com: domain of antoine.riard@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033
 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=antoine.riard@gmail.com;       dmarc=pass
 (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;       dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
 <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/)

--00000000000091b60c062cb80d2b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Do I understand correctly that this attack only applies if Alice
> attempts to fee bump her batch transaction?  In short, is this the
> attack:

Fundamentally, yes. This attack is primarily targeting all transaction
flows with a fee bump.

See section 6.4 of the joined paper for more characterization of the
"Transaction Traffic Hijack", while no quantitative analysis of the average
% txn affected has been done so far.

There could also be UTXO-sharing flows that are affected, where the
attacker is propagating first, and preventing the other tx to propagate,
before evicting his own package.

However no test and no thoughts has been given to this
"block-first-at-the-UTXO-root" alternative, the fee bump is more concerning=
.

Best,
Antoine

Le lun. 27 janv. 2025 =C3=A0 22:17, David A. Harding <dave@dtrt.org> a =C3=
=A9crit :

> On 2025-01-27 05:22, Antoine Riard wrote:
> > As soon as Alice's batch transaction starts to propagate, Mallet
> > consumes its 2 outputs with 2 chain of junk transactions to reach max
> > package limits (25 descendants) and block the carve-out. The junk
> > transactions are of size 150 bytes and feerates 2 satoshis per virtual
> > byte and they have 2 parents: one Alice's payout UTXO and one Mallet's
> > UTXO.
> >
> > Starting from this point, Alice's exchange server logic should either
> > (a) attempts a CPFP or (b) attempts a RBF on the batch transaction. As
> > there is no global mempool, Alice is uncertain on the explanation for
> > the lack of propagation of her batch transaction [...]
>
> Do I understand correctly that this attack only applies if Alice
> attempts to fee bump her batch transaction?  In short, is this the
> attack:
>
> - Alice broadcasts a transaction.
> - Mallet pins Alice.
> - Alice doesn't realize she's been pinned and bumps the fees.
> - The bump doesn't propagate due to the pin, but Mallet receives it
>    anyway somehow.
> - Mallet mines the fee bump, but nobody else mines it because it didn't
>    propagate.  Mallet thus makes more money than other miners.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Dave
>

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
CALZpt%2BHyQyj6EUf39JX3nuD3izsmBSG9XUcV-EVrC05o2T%3Du7A%40mail.gmail.com.

--00000000000091b60c062cb80d2b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt; Do I understand correctly that this attack only appli=
es if Alice<br>&gt; attempts to fee bump her batch transaction?=C2=A0 In sh=
ort, is this the<br>&gt; attack:<div><br></div><div>Fundamentally, yes. Thi=
s attack is primarily targeting=C2=A0all transaction flows with a fee bump.=
</div><div><br></div><div>See section 6.4 of the joined paper=C2=A0for more=
 characterization of the &quot;Transaction Traffic Hijack&quot;, while no q=
uantitative analysis of the average % txn affected has been done so far.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>There could also be UTXO-sharing flows that are affe=
cted, where the attacker is propagating first, and preventing the other tx =
to propagate, before evicting his own package.</div><div><br></div><div>How=
ever no test and no thoughts has been given to this &quot;block-first-at-th=
e-UTXO-root&quot; alternative, the fee bump is more concerning.</div><div><=
br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Antoine</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">Le=C2=A0lu=
n. 27 janv. 2025 =C3=A0=C2=A022:17, David A. Harding &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
dave@dtrt.org">dave@dtrt.org</a>&gt; a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<br></div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-widt=
h:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex">On 2025-01-27 05:22, Antoine Riard wrote:<br>
&gt; As soon as Alice&#39;s batch transaction starts to propagate, Mallet<b=
r>
&gt; consumes its 2 outputs with 2 chain of junk transactions to reach max<=
br>
&gt; package limits (25 descendants) and block the carve-out. The junk<br>
&gt; transactions are of size 150 bytes and feerates 2 satoshis per virtual=
<br>
&gt; byte and they have 2 parents: one Alice&#39;s payout UTXO and one Mall=
et&#39;s<br>
&gt; UTXO.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Starting from this point, Alice&#39;s exchange server logic should eit=
her<br>
&gt; (a) attempts a CPFP or (b) attempts a RBF on the batch transaction. As=
<br>
&gt; there is no global mempool, Alice is uncertain on the explanation for<=
br>
&gt; the lack of propagation of her batch transaction [...]<br>
<br>
Do I understand correctly that this attack only applies if Alice<br>
attempts to fee bump her batch transaction?=C2=A0 In short, is this the<br>
attack:<br>
<br>
- Alice broadcasts a transaction.<br>
- Mallet pins Alice.<br>
- Alice doesn&#39;t realize she&#39;s been pinned and bumps the fees.<br>
- The bump doesn&#39;t propagate due to the pin, but Mallet receives it<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0anyway somehow.<br>
- Mallet mines the fee bump, but nobody else mines it because it didn&#39;t=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0propagate.=C2=A0 Mallet thus makes more money than other miner=
s.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
-Dave<br>
</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bitcoind=
ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
bitcoindev/CALZpt%2BHyQyj6EUf39JX3nuD3izsmBSG9XUcV-EVrC05o2T%3Du7A%40mail.g=
mail.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.com/=
d/msgid/bitcoindev/CALZpt%2BHyQyj6EUf39JX3nuD3izsmBSG9XUcV-EVrC05o2T%3Du7A%=
40mail.gmail.com</a>.<br />

--00000000000091b60c062cb80d2b--