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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Emin_G=C3=BCn_Sirer?= <el33th4x0r@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 14:39:08 -0400
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To: Bob McElrath <bob@mcelrath.org>
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Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Ittay Eyal <ittay.eyal@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin-NG whitepaper.
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>So it seems to me that all I need to do is figure out who the current
leader is,
>and DDoS him off the network to shut Bitcoin-NG down.

Good point. If NG is layered on top of Bitcoin, we'd retain all of Bitcoin
as is. This would confer all the benefits of Bitcoin's retrospective
blocks, as well as add the ability to mint microblocks with low latency in
between. And despite the phrase "the leader," the actual leader in NG is a
key, not a specific node. That makes it possible to deter DDoS attacks by
dynamically migrating where in the network the leader is operating in
response to an attack. Finally, DDoS attacks against miners are already
possible, but they seem rare, and I suspect it's at least partly because of
the success of Matt Corallo's high speed bitcoin relay network. Similar
defenses can apply here.

- egs



On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Bob McElrath <bob@mcelrath.org> wrote:

> So it seems to me that all I need to do is figure out who the current
> leader is,
> and DDoS him off the network to shut Bitcoin-NG down.
>
> This is a significant advantage to bitcoin's ex-post-facto blocks: no one
> knows
> where the next one will come from.  The only way to shut the network down
> is to
> shut all nodes down.
>
> Emin G=C3=BCn Sirer via bitcoin-dev [bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.or=
g]
> wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > We just released the whitepaper describing Bitcoin-NG, a new technique
> for
> > addressing some of the scalability challenges faced by Bitcoin.
> Surprisingly,
> > Bitcoin-NG can simultaneously increase throughput while reducing
> latency, and
> > do so without impacting Bitcoin's open architecture or changing its tru=
st
> > model. This post illustrates the core technique:
> >      http://hackingdistributed.com/2015/10/14/bitcoin-ng/
> > while the whitepaper has all the nitty gritty details:
> >      http://arxiv.org/abs/1510.02037
> >
> > Fitting NG on top of the current Bitcoin blockchain is future work that
> we
> > think is quite possible. NG is compatible with both Bitcoin as is, as
> well as
> > Blockstream-like sidechains, and we currently are not planning to compe=
te
> > commercially with either technology -- we see NG as being complementary
> to both
> > efforts. This is pure science, published and shared with the community =
to
> > advance the state of blockchains and to help them reach throughputs and
> > latencies required of cutting edge fintech applications. Perhaps it can
> be
> > adopted, or perhaps it can provide the spark of inspiration for someone
> else to
> > come up with even better solutions.
> >
> > We would be delighted to hear your feedback.
> > - Ittay Eyal and E. G=C3=BCn Sirer.
> >
> > !DSPAM:561e98cd301391127216946!
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> >
> >
> > !DSPAM:561e98cd301391127216946!
>
> --
> Cheers, Bob McElrath
>
> "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and
> wrong."
>     -- H. L. Mencken
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt;So it seems to me that all I need to do is figure out =
who the current leader is,<div>&gt;and DDoS him off the network to shut Bit=
coin-NG down.</div><div><br></div><div>Good point. If NG is layered on top =
of Bitcoin, we&#39;d retain all of Bitcoin as is. This would confer all the=
 benefits of Bitcoin&#39;s retrospective blocks, as well as add the ability=
 to mint microblocks with low latency in between. And despite the phrase &q=
uot;the leader,&quot; the actual leader in NG is a key, not a specific node=
. That makes it possible to deter DDoS attacks by dynamically migrating whe=
re in the network the leader is operating in response to an attack. Finally=
, DDoS attacks against miners are already possible, but they seem rare, and=
 I suspect it&#39;s at least partly because of the success of Matt Corallo&=
#39;s high speed bitcoin relay network. Similar defenses can apply here.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>- egs</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 a=
t 2:20 PM, Bob McElrath <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bob@mcelrat=
h.org" target=3D"_blank">bob@mcelrath.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex">So it seems to me that all I need to do is figure ou=
t who the current leader is,<br>
and DDoS him off the network to shut Bitcoin-NG down.<br>
<br>
This is a significant advantage to bitcoin&#39;s ex-post-facto blocks: no o=
ne knows<br>
where the next one will come from.=C2=A0 The only way to shut the network d=
own is to<br>
shut all nodes down.<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
Emin G=C3=BCn Sirer via bitcoin-dev [<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.li=
nuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>] wrote:<br>
&gt; Hi everyone,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; We just released the whitepaper describing Bitcoin-NG, a new technique=
 for<br>
&gt; addressing some of the scalability challenges faced by Bitcoin. Surpri=
singly,<br>
&gt; Bitcoin-NG can simultaneously increase throughput while reducing laten=
cy, and<br>
&gt; do so without impacting Bitcoin&#39;s open architecture or changing it=
s trust<br>
&gt; model. This post illustrates the core technique:<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://hackingdistributed.com/2015/10/1=
4/bitcoin-ng/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://hackingdistribut=
ed.com/2015/10/14/bitcoin-ng/</a><br>
&gt; while the whitepaper has all the nitty gritty details:<br>
&gt; =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://arxiv.org/abs/1510.02037" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://arxiv.org/abs/1510.02037</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Fitting NG on top of the current Bitcoin blockchain is future work tha=
t we<br>
&gt; think is quite possible. NG is compatible with both Bitcoin as is, as =
well as<br>
&gt; Blockstream-like sidechains, and we currently are not planning to comp=
ete<br>
&gt; commercially with either technology -- we see NG as being complementar=
y to both<br>
&gt; efforts. This is pure science, published and shared with the community=
 to<br>
&gt; advance the state of blockchains and to help them reach throughputs an=
d<br>
&gt; latencies required of cutting edge fintech applications. Perhaps it ca=
n be<br>
&gt; adopted, or perhaps it can provide the spark of inspiration for someon=
e else to<br>
&gt; come up with even better solutions.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; We would be delighted to hear your feedback.=C2=A0<br>
&gt; - Ittay Eyal and E. G=C3=BCn Sirer.<br>
&gt;<br>
</div></div>&gt; !DSPAM:561e98cd301391127216946!<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@l=
ists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-=
dev" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
</span>&gt; !DSPAM:561e98cd301391127216946!<br>
<br>
--<br>
Cheers, Bob McElrath<br>
<br>
&quot;For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, =
and wrong.&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -- H. L. Mencken<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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