1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
|
Return-Path: <earonesty@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::133])
by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F1F7C0011
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 30 Jun 2022 17:05:05 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A7B340B24
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 30 Jun 2022 17:05:05 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 4A7B340B24
Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org;
dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com
header.i=@q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.a=rsa-sha256
header.s=20210112 header.b=8XTEH7Cg
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.399
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001,
HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id 17mb58tusduT
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 30 Jun 2022 17:05:04 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 4AE07408B6
Received: from mail-lj1-x230.google.com (mail-lj1-x230.google.com
[IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::230])
by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AE07408B6
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 30 Jun 2022 17:05:04 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-lj1-x230.google.com with SMTP id a11so23921420ljb.5
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:05:04 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=q32-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112;
h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to
:cc; bh=+wXGcp3BtGhccEun6tu8DWEzWR8l6/K2VT5xlkQeTwg=;
b=8XTEH7Cg6kfoSh+eoh4mBUFJfJb/LYUEHzk2S0K2PSm1XhS0QcpFvDNPoMajeyvQKT
QW6Hnu3VYvYdDt/ENbdOxitgpzxLQr/zw9d8JXzm5scIKBnygxxT+Nh5i7aOFB5bG7Vw
ZJ+GAFVMtAIv5BOIMiyqasZvHydxfCRXLlIx+UJzQI6YxRIDA9reQNwcN/guVIwbmVLt
1S4MEanPLF0Psu9utYFcdsch1JonWadpw/iarsKxf8ymvQMBdzk51S8/XNi+Kobifang
QZfpctgGeISQkJ1jWvZ1FTsZkuFdn6/UQj5I35KvD0WoFjuQ75aQgVWsXyvWFahdaKn3
nS9w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20210112;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date
:message-id:subject:to:cc;
bh=+wXGcp3BtGhccEun6tu8DWEzWR8l6/K2VT5xlkQeTwg=;
b=qRufJPEaFtpEHEPLmyZVzkkpctJTgtdqn4oQPGXvNJnjTgSduU7kR34ymFsYMkmxus
JEKsUYM5UYgo9qmQAG4pDd7MEqKvvcPYK4/hHLecSI6QwH2rDB4HBZpzefdSX16IarjI
9KsCLHcQGeH6rC7egJpchSpNcmb7gq+VNQ73J/XRpuWizsyfN8cFJa1Lwtci0cZPN77Y
0hLNxIex1V1/lgrT5fi+0agKYjM4zdto2kDAHzjgwc39YibSRRIFcZakE1rhDJkhDpkU
obg9nO6HkW/LSBH9B/wb8YWfJgqIg4ts1yIBvq5mQGXS+/x9UPd69d0wWb1za3mS+Qpd
zOYg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+aa3DbX6ZK18A3gsQnRINGEn+4lhgv8v2UBidNZLGWVowaevOX
zJN/StQx3rQh6mGXGyi2acKCymK0PyY9IfudkW5ISbU=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1tUUzA2klTPUYwoi9qJSl0uq8QweNqqDPSZPG2/5m5aqmDsHVRx/SmxS2O6NQ0oN4yMy8v8x4Goy0Tn1xk7mZw=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:987:b0:25b:ce6b:1a9 with SMTP id
b7-20020a05651c098700b0025bce6b01a9mr6083957ljq.275.1656608702188; Thu, 30
Jun 2022 10:05:02 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <mailman.9.1654344003.14400.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
<CAHTn92zw_MaSKWiZGhGFqFYXJxv6kQ+7=XCHbRLim1jhtEsVVQ@mail.gmail.com>
<CAJowKgJ8GP4Ykzn5dMHZ7wsE04YmpOLgTpdc9tgfVng0qB0Jjg@mail.gmail.com>
<YqVfTU0M7XN8+Ybu@petertodd.org>
<Pwr9EFLSv2rU7nXRzqFuw2LPxpFo22g_qYy4reQzpMuSlgRzTG536uLjZCc9sI43olReGMA7BFgjnxJGKtZNtxU7qRy_-YYOnz6TeMy4h8Q=@protonmail.com>
<Yq77CnxOhr615ip8@petertodd.org>
<CAAxiura7-TTUOg=vuH8q+orX+LVED74f+NvaYqVve3j--CjTMQ@mail.gmail.com>
<CAJowKgL=nVwnUrpSKmnsTxOfk3DEEZL7awG=HypyCXSR3XCLxg@mail.gmail.com>
<CALeFGL0CQC4_swZTt-=sbe=ZiCmRthZghGDtrWFx5bQCBeOJcg@mail.gmail.com>
<YrS8URqD/BW4UrP0@petertodd.org>
<CAGpPWDb=dF4-D5GKb2NoEcdW6TokNQyrwpGVwHJk+0HL43+J1Q@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAGpPWDb=dF4-D5GKb2NoEcdW6TokNQyrwpGVwHJk+0HL43+J1Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: Erik Aronesty <erik@q32.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 13:04:50 -0400
Message-ID: <CAJowKgJnGzRxm5QjDB0RzTA80jQLo7rBKgM+M-V1y7-QeOYucw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Billy Tetrud <billy.tetrud@gmail.com>,
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000039d1f505e2ad452f"
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 21:22:34 +0000
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 17:05:05 -0000
--00000000000039d1f505e2ad452f
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Anyway, demurrage and inflation have identical economic properties. They're
>> both a tax on savings. The only difference is the way that tax is
>> implemented.
>
>
the fact that a conversation on inflation is continuing without being
ignored is probably an indicator that the utility of on-chain services as
an incentive to drive fees is a worthwhile consideration. i especially
like the proposed and very simple on-chain "payment codes" idea, for
example. if a light-touch is used, bitcoin operators can thread the
needle allowing utility to grow a bit in response to halvings. i suspect
lightning ate a lot of the on-chain fees. future "compression and
privacy" protocols, like mweb, should keep this concern in mind.
--00000000000039d1f505e2ad452f
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex">Anyway, demurrage and inflation have identical economi=
c properties. They're<br>
both a tax on savings. The only difference is the way that tax is implement=
ed.</blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>the fact that a=C2=
=A0conversation on inflation is continuing without being ignored is probabl=
y an indicator that the utility of on-chain services as an incentive to dri=
ve fees is a worthwhile consideration.=C2=A0 i especially like the proposed=
and very simple on-chain "payment codes" idea, for example.=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0if a light-touch is used, bitcoin=C2=A0operators can thread the n=
eedle allowing utility to grow a bit in response to halvings.=C2=A0 i suspe=
ct lightning ate a lot of the on-chain fees.=C2=A0 =C2=A0future "compr=
ession and privacy" protocols, like mweb, should keep this concern in =
mind.<br></div><div><br></div></div></div>
--00000000000039d1f505e2ad452f--
|
