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From: Christian Decker <decker.christian@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 14:58:53 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Blitcoin? (Black Hat 2011)
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While I do think that anonymity (or pseudonymity) is a nice feature, I don't
think it deserves the full focus of the developers. The core of the protocol
is about making transactions in a secure and fast way, not allowing
everybody to be anonymous, whether they want to or not. TOR already is a
good options for those that want to stay anonymous, and there is no need to
pull support into the main client, if only a few will use it. I think very
few of the developers actually claimed that Bitcoin is anonymous, and has
never been a big advertising point from the "official" side of Bitcoin,
network analysis has been always known to break anonymity.
I see no need for action from the developer side.
-cdecker
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Joel Joonatan Kaartinen <
joel.kaartinen@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-08-05 at 01:52 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> > Yes, that is correct. Bitcoin resends wallet transactions with zero
> > confirmations, and both sent and received transactions fall within the
> > "wallet tx" superset.
> >
> > TBH I had forgotten about the resend on the receiver side, though.
> > It, of course, makes plenty of sense in the context of importing
> > transactions from foreign sources, e.g. receiving transactions via a
> > USB flash drive.
>
> Could every node do the resends? Alternatively, could we implement a TOR
> like tunneling system just for the first leg of the transactions
> (overkill?). Then again, maybe just a TOR gateway if that's desired.
>
> > > Drawok's suggestion about using UDP packets with spoofed sender
> addresses is
> > > interesting, as UDP has another advantage; you can open up an "inbound"
> UDP
> > > port on almost any NAT router without any UPNP magic: just send out an
> UDP
> > > packet, the router will wait a certain time for answers (on a mapped
> port
> > > number) and relay these back.
>
> This is a nice idea but sounds rather unreliable.
>
> > Well, it -is- possible to implement TCP over UDP <grin> The TCP
> > connection sequence over UDP helps to work against spoofing, while UDP
> > helps to open an inbound UDP port as you describe.
>
> There's already an implementation of this, called UTP. If we do decide
> that using UDP is worthwhile, this library is probably better than
> implementing something ourselves.
>
> - Joel
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Sessions, hands-on labs, demos & much more. Register early & save!
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While I do think that anonymity (or pseudonymity) is a nice feature, I don&=
#39;t think it deserves the full focus of the developers. The core of the p=
rotocol is about making transactions in a secure and fast way, not allowing=
everybody to be anonymous, whether they want to or not. TOR already is a g=
ood options for those that want to stay anonymous, and there is no need to =
pull support into the main client, if only a few will use it. I think very =
few of the developers actually claimed that Bitcoin is anonymous, and has n=
ever been a big advertising point from the "official" side of Bit=
coin, network analysis has been always known to break anonymity.<br>
<br>I see no need for action from the developer side.<br><br>-cdecker<br><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Joel Joonatan =
Kaartinen <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:joel.kaartinen@gmail.com"=
>joel.kaartinen@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class=3D"im">On Fri, 2011-08-05 at 01:=
52 -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:<br>
> Yes, that is correct. =A0Bitcoin resends wallet transactions with zero=
<br>
> confirmations, and both sent and received transactions fall within the=
<br>
> "wallet tx" superset.<br>
><br>
> TBH I had forgotten about the resend on the receiver side, though.<br>
> It, of course, makes plenty of sense in the context of importing<br>
> transactions from foreign sources, e.g. receiving transactions via a<b=
r>
> USB flash drive.<br>
<br>
</div>Could every node do the resends? Alternatively, could we implement a =
TOR<br>
like tunneling system just for the first leg of the transactions<br>
(overkill?). Then again, maybe just a TOR gateway if that's desired.<br=
>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
> > Drawok's suggestion about using UDP packets with spoofed send=
er addresses is<br>
> > interesting, as UDP has another advantage; you can open up an &qu=
ot;inbound" UDP<br>
> > port on almost any NAT router without any UPNP magic: just send o=
ut an UDP<br>
> > packet, the router will wait a certain time for answers (on a map=
ped port<br>
> > number) and relay these back.<br>
<br>
</div>This is a nice idea but sounds rather unreliable.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
> Well, it -is- possible to implement TCP over UDP <grin> =A0The T=
CP<br>
> connection sequence over UDP helps to work against spoofing, while UDP=
<br>
> helps to open an inbound UDP port as you describe.<br>
<br>
</div>There's already an implementation of this, called UTP. If we do d=
ecide<br>
that using UDP is worthwhile, this library is probably better than<br>
implementing something ourselves.<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
- Joel<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
BlackBerry&reg; DevCon Americas, Oct. 18-20, San Francisco, CA<br>
The must-attend event for mobile developers. Connect with experts.<br>
Get tools for creating Super Apps. See the latest technologies.<br>
Sessions, hands-on labs, demos & much more. Register early & save!<=
br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/rim-blackberry-1" target=3D"_blank">http://p=
.sf.net/sfu/rim-blackberry-1</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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