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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Request For Discussion / BIP number -
Multi-Currency Hierarchy For Use In Multisignature Deterministic Wallets
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William,
I believe the reasoning for this is stated in the Coin Type section.
"Public derivation is used so that cosigners need only know one of each
other's public keys, rather than needing to distribute public keys for each
coin."
BIP44 has a coin level, but it's a private derived level, so cosigners
would not be able to generate multiple crypto currencies of each others'
without giving each other n xpubs where n is the number of currencies
shared. This new proposal basically sticks coin type on the public
derivation side of things so that I could generate litecoin or darkcoin
multisigs without your permission...
Kefkius,
This BIP seems like a good fit for multi-currency wallets based on
multisig. So kudos for putting it in writing.
However, I don't know if this is really a BIP thing. It's not improving
Bitcoin (Bitcoin Improvement Proposal... remember?), in fact, by definition
it is improving altcoin usability.
For that reason alone I will say I disagree for a BIP for this.
- Jona
2015-04-08 16:46 GMT+09:00 William Swanson <swansontec@gmail.com>:
>
> It's not really clear why this is better than BIP 44 as it already
> stands. You have the same fields, but they are just in a different
> order. Couldn't you just use the existing BIP 44 hierarchy, but add
> the convention that "wallet/account N" is the same wallet in each
> supported currency?
>
> For example, if I have a wallet called "business expenses", which
> happens to be wallet m / 44' / 0' / 5', for Bitcoin, then the same
> wallet would be m / 44' / 3' / 5' for Dogecoin, and m / 44' / 2' / 5'
> for Litecoin.
>
> I am trying to think of examples where your proposal is better than
> BIP 44, but I can't think of any. Even backup recovery works fine. I
> assume that your idea is to continue iterating over the different
> wallet indices as long as you are finding funds in *any* currency.
> Well, you can still do that with BIP 44. The fields are in a different
> order, but that doesn't affect the algorithm in any way.
>
> Maybe you have some deeper insight I'm not seeing, but if so, you need
> to clearly explain that in your motivation section. The current
> explanation, "This limits the possible implementations of
> multi-currency, multisignature wallets," is pretty vauge. Also, there
> is nothing in this spec that addresses the multisignature use-case.
> The BIP 45 spec does a lot of extra work to make multisignature work
> smoothly.
>
> I'm not trying to criticize your proposal. I'm just trying to
> understand what it's trying to accomplish.
>
> -William Swanson
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Kefkius <kefkius@maza.club> wrote:
> > I have a potential BIP, "Multi-Currency Hierarchy For Use In
> > Multisignature Deterministic Wallets." I'm requesting discussion on it,
> > and possibly assignment of a BIP number.
> >
> > It's located in this github gist:
> > https://gist.github.com/Kefkius/1aa02945e532f8739023
> >
> >
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
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<div dir=3D"ltr">William,<br><br>I believe the reasoning for this is stated=
in the Coin Type section.<br><br>"Public derivation is used so that c=
osigners need only know one of each other's public keys, rather than ne=
eding to distribute public keys for each coin."<br><br>BIP44 has a coi=
n level, but it's a private derived level, so cosigners would not be ab=
le to generate multiple crypto currencies of each others' without givin=
g each other n xpubs where n is the number of currencies shared. This new p=
roposal basically sticks coin type on the public derivation side of things =
so that I could generate litecoin or darkcoin multisigs without your permis=
sion...<br><br>Kefkius,<br><br>This BIP seems like a good fit for multi-cur=
rency wallets based on multisig. So kudos for putting it in writing.<br><br=
>However, I don't know if this is really a BIP thing. It's not impr=
oving Bitcoin (Bitcoin Improvement Proposal... remember?), in fact, by defi=
nition it is improving altcoin usability.<br><br>For that reason alone I wi=
ll say I disagree for a BIP for this.<br>- Jona<div><br><br>2015-04-08 16:4=
6 GMT+09:00 William Swanson <<a href=3D"mailto:swansontec@gmail.com">swa=
nsontec@gmail.com</a>>:<br>><br>> It's not really clear why th=
is is better than BIP 44 as it already<br>> stands. You have the same fi=
elds, but they are just in a different<br>> order. Couldn't you just=
use the existing BIP 44 hierarchy, but add<br>> the convention that &qu=
ot;wallet/account N" is the same wallet in each<br>> supported curr=
ency?<br>><br>> For example, if I have a wallet called "business=
expenses", which<br>> happens to be wallet m / 44' / 0' / =
5', for Bitcoin, then the same<br>> wallet would be m / 44' / 3&=
#39; / 5' for Dogecoin, and m / 44' / 2' / 5'<br>> for L=
itecoin.<br>><br>> I am trying to think of examples where your propos=
al is better than<br>> BIP 44, but I can't think of any. Even backup=
recovery works fine. I<br>> assume that your idea is to continue iterat=
ing over the different<br>> wallet indices as long as you are finding fu=
nds in *any* currency.<br>> Well, you can still do that with BIP 44. The=
fields are in a different<br>> order, but that doesn't affect the a=
lgorithm in any way.<br>><br>> Maybe you have some deeper insight I&#=
39;m not seeing, but if so, you need<br>> to clearly explain that in you=
r motivation section. The current<br>> explanation, "This limits th=
e possible implementations of<br>> multi-currency, multisignature wallet=
s," is pretty vauge. Also, there<br>> is nothing in this spec that =
addresses the multisignature use-case.<br>> The BIP 45 spec does a lot o=
f extra work to make multisignature work<br>> smoothly.<br>><br>> =
I'm not trying to criticize your proposal. I'm just trying to<br>&g=
t; understand what it's trying to accomplish.<br>><br>> -William =
Swanson<br>><br>><br>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Kefkius &l=
t;kefkius@maza.club> wrote:<br>> > I have a potential BIP, "M=
ulti-Currency Hierarchy For Use In<br>> > Multisignature Deterministi=
c Wallets." I'm requesting discussion on it,<br>> > and poss=
ibly assignment of a BIP number.<br>> ><br>> > It's located=
in this github gist:<br>> > <a href=3D"https://gist.github.com/Kefki=
us/1aa02945e532f8739023">https://gist.github.com/Kefkius/1aa02945e532f87390=
23</a><br>> ><br>> > ------------------------------------------=
------------------------------------<br>> > BPM Camp - Free Virtual W=
orkshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT<br>> > Develop your own process i=
n accordance with the BPMN 2 standard<br>> > Learn Process modeling b=
est practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises<br>> > <a href=
=3D"http://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual-">http:=
//www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual-</a> event?utm_<=
br>> > source=3DSourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15&utm_medium=3Demail&am=
p;utm_campaign=3DVA_SF<br>> > _______________________________________=
________<br>> > Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>> > <a href=
=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@l=
ists.sourceforge.net</a><br>> > <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.=
net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists=
/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>><br>> -------------------------=
-----------------------------------------------------<br>> BPM Camp - Fr=
ee Virtual Workshop May 6th at 10am PDT/1PM EDT<br>> Develop your own pr=
ocess in accordance with the BPMN 2 standard<br>> Learn Process modeling=
best practices with Bonita BPM through live exercises<br>> <a href=3D"h=
ttp://www.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual-">http://www=
.bonitasoft.com/be-part-of-it/events/bpm-camp-virtual-</a> event?utm_<br>&g=
t; source=3DSourceforge_BPM_Camp_5_6_15&utm_medium=3Demail&utm_camp=
aign=3DVA_SF<br>> _______________________________________________<br>>=
; Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>> <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><=
br>> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-dev=
elopment">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development<=
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</div></div></div>
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