1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
|
Delivery-date: Mon, 09 Jun 2025 09:35:57 -0700
Received: from mail-oo1-f55.google.com ([209.85.161.55])
by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
(Exim 4.94.2)
(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBCYNLXGV3AMRBY42TTBAMGQEGLPRAII@googlegroups.com>)
id 1uOfTY-00018o-Ha
for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2025 09:35:57 -0700
Received: by mail-oo1-f55.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-60f3908ef96sf3210578eaf.2
for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Mon, 09 Jun 2025 09:35:56 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1749486951; cv=pass;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=MzMRsW2qffasPDXgrNVVFP+BNI5v/9k94oL5zp8uJmOxd3XkW4SnubfCXrp8qBj59C
bw0EfIZV+DULR0wlWUf3n2DsY8x+yRcYgjMGtqDxBN+GhN0x/7Zn/u+I+4D9xOWi23Bn
p1aE+hmBqA5FdkhLHoTb6whw/uMa0kScT0kNPbkOIOofnRuLmSDSv2a/1qbUXQYCA2TR
6Ator2NqPoiT+g+5BXCHIHEUut0xfYRvf2HlcbiFiGo8dvtU2VliY3DNfg2aKpRpfcoW
VystwOowHWrtIRka9zVtHyN2aai4JH2KF3AcQH6Lipze6H2xApKoHUgYOHrID+I+j7Bo
cRqw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:content-transfer-encoding:cc:to
:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version
:sender:dkim-signature:dkim-signature;
bh=VavQJMWeR+BnWHJq2+jUa05b0B2R1i2TsegA4h/Zc+4=;
fh=5hMUcwASh1XBv/dHhSHt9SnrVR7KNrc0Ip6hf6Nhho4=;
b=RR3K3n62QRfhqkelJDGkTD8/WjCfCPZWL+tNxseX+p7l1rhKP0N0PSfAJOGrx3cIIC
+W8VEF/wzpw5DKY6JxHKWkTfd/IO2qatHD6/IA0+/MDO+cjLdUqwdl6uYomJMhv+fEtA
RVu7KY8D2XL3MqduCIG22VSRU23Pi/i/Q1AxipRJCkSQZ2Gmu1BZTpJirsqXh64r7KW0
Aop5aOd53Ng0qz8YqIPC8vpp1zthHWQKIyDYCoxb+LVebGukNxr6VvoXZIJXGhzVJwqj
c3/cdl3qUl7Ushm6HXubLt+e0qA001qmMCmyNPFLxRqzX07SIojXHldRU6BopgdkwJ1J
t20g==;
darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=VUdn1How;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of michaelfolkson@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=michaelfolkson@gmail.com;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1749486951; x=1750091751; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject
:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:sender
:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=VavQJMWeR+BnWHJq2+jUa05b0B2R1i2TsegA4h/Zc+4=;
b=NCmEmoA9I0ZUq2chl7nAk8YcnNYUqMPJ4t8dDOs1x5gh0CWWKGt5lEmcWBbF0zmGAN
QG71/m0rfNAXQSCbLX4MDBMWLE/wVfZ9UECzi+HLzw9VvjJid1ywSEVHuLADCgxe1JnS
dw3wY0Vy8x7I7goxUcW1PmsI6yJX7poz508muURzzZKJk41AtVR4TFwQEZ8DyamXtZb3
ZwMhpKYRONrMK+LuSNCSxraXCJ/HhagvQHrBo3oLJ31E+2IsFEwVWl56ltOUTu7t1HYt
Wn4Ua33FjGG9P87aB4yxHCFH1iQynNeUrqKpf0xc0aeFDvwzl4xxf1ANt7tRqcloeHSr
xyYA==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1749486951; x=1750091751; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject
:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc
:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=VavQJMWeR+BnWHJq2+jUa05b0B2R1i2TsegA4h/Zc+4=;
b=TBXWRFDpCpPqdFQUaOqSkr1RLcpnk/nEK+NkzCvBiTQLlnhHWgW91oPEK6CS5BU77L
hK72aO9YGF24Rm1xvq1F7EqxTa+NBl0q7rzUrh74NZeKPZRduGSPEBYtOb0u+2XIJdJ7
l4vs7hhJoqa3Dt5iiaZoqixphn/pU5dqiWXZGim3eP6dHl2YBOENYCl8ZoRz7JvXzN5g
f+U+bMkPTMbyhOwNXTH0CIH8i1AfAbp/7i3yJzP8gBLIkgR2lIrAVcDiKgmaZxf33Dk9
yiHccZgYBpoZSRC9yJu+Q0rsec9pNWLeAu19RLj6uLiehgZ6izZa4rO6p1lBZdLuGoXX
SmeQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1749486951; x=1750091751;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject
:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version
:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date
:message-id:reply-to;
bh=VavQJMWeR+BnWHJq2+jUa05b0B2R1i2TsegA4h/Zc+4=;
b=HgpuLMMftoE28defh0Wvo0ylvJk10SIeVwowJwxaN46KzgRjUeRQPXiBbmeyc019GQ
DkUMzTyWt3ebat3RtimQ2dx/4985jvtwwxikKVetBSjMTCwjbCxTzE+b766BonHN1E+f
e9LXnUmQMcwBT3tCE2KajwBOT/bMeUjGmfKpArf4rDVBYrkWfmIZirjg/EB7ZUzz+2eD
byuI+rJHmBIQWmgabfCprxXS+XtEm3iK7lvMP7i6COc7K83uXWXeb82/QNuXz+AgVdEe
bWnLkzSDM4oKifWinn9ou7f3trsNVbT1nLGudnjVj9PtkutQuQ0+abemU/P0NnpT2tX/
mXCw==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWSZ6eaBDd4C6TmlMwF6ORlrEKLTjJVUutXMZKGostHCPwMpBML9xxoXOHrhm3a8edTqdQQcP8zk+sN@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxMVggdll0jRbCPF7c9Fzd1/F8BoCdMC/MYL9sUtN6Fn+A7Rihe
zsqNkuyN4yaR6H5P3361oCPVUI8dS2hkP4eEYGoYl7Kc7rd8TPlj7Z0Z
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG4NH+nAOQot0R2L8wPMzU4b9EAubE7PFlyEiBEGhz8yfZHjQKWxlUMtEpNlWwpk/L0tHOuxw==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6871:e40b:b0:2d4:ea06:b11 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2ea0067a8c3mr8519661fac.7.1749486950838;
Mon, 09 Jun 2025 09:35:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=AZMbMZeIKXet7yhUmtA9aI8TgoKBvlDQ+myU8rEvhRW4ig0PPg==
Received: by 2002:a4a:de49:0:b0:60e:4d42:51b4 with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-60f283333f2ls2989806eaf.0.-pod-prod-05-us;
Mon, 09 Jun 2025 09:35:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:2118:b0:401:ea99:537 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-409050c28b0mr8635475b6e.16.1749486947253;
Mon, 09 Jun 2025 09:35:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 2002:a05:6808:2014:b0:3f9:f009:458e with SMTP id 5614622812f47-40905fa9e5fmsb6e;
Mon, 9 Jun 2025 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:3783:b0:72b:98d9:6b1c with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-73888ee2128mr11843275a34.21.1749484581454;
Mon, 09 Jun 2025 08:56:21 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1749484581; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=OVCYm6n1ToC/Za6h7WTSk00IxpaJ12euKK3D6sEm06xNzHG6JtU/LsBbzLoMfkXic9
mjB3n0h4MxZ7l+xQwnOcRehcvEHDEjXyk/0UHBEDSMH3xdZq5HLsqUe0T12wvbQbI3h/
nj5x6V5heMAVt3HI8TqATCY1Phm9WSKfR/sbObgvkl5eEKw2MYczgr7F2dUnzCyp//fS
258paiuw0HuTizVeaIEJPnxwV5XVVwNRFrB1ldS8D1Wo/U17AwKD9Glm4dHIbxRqjxBq
Xhult+H3WmRVqxu4ILxUyfeR4yUwf+b2aq72qU8ap9b5BVmjjCeIA0UaZx6KN6kBaWTm
OkMA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from
:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:dkim-signature;
bh=zqLjt82sQ4NCMYKkh+e8bYpjTllXKunlIk+l5CN1HbQ=;
fh=skq0ZBTFRWo7o51Q2kNvyBkgC5sF8HQPebRcIVmikNw=;
b=Dntbm5UV0o7oGgFGmaXNF6rWSbIArTxJ7O5bgYxXOJNJhsh6QA3B4f3nbTgESBW1V6
cNTNc/hSbg7YlyCEOVac6UfVktYxCFef/UzokW0wBQPJjtsRnMMFhrQ97Wyierow+dCj
wBvPZN8vkb/FDN+AqRPs4PcF2ay8gXIqz7KN6rx0ve88xYrZRPSTbMmI0fHqlrJEqSfS
oyiubcYeN8mihmuVIOcu4vAM7ZXtgfX1X3hj8mRS5Q14fU1SFsX5LB79N4FF9P0wJcl9
rM8MtjQVnZCIHj+SM87vXfrrNzseL2SS4DClSUVj4lpV3IfKVzSN8CE5fdEkwkoU8vRJ
I3uw==;
dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=VUdn1How;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of michaelfolkson@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=michaelfolkson@gmail.com;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
Received: from mail-pf1-x42d.google.com (mail-pf1-x42d.google.com. [2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d])
by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 46e09a7af769-7388a0601e5si361161a34.4.2025.06.09.08.56.21
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
Mon, 09 Jun 2025 08:56:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of michaelfolkson@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d;
Received: by mail-pf1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-74800b81f1bso3382241b3a.1
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>; Mon, 09 Jun 2025 08:56:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct4Clcd8OJ/AZYod77tYTjZg4gy2WG5CRjYbpQaf1Y0yWWKMNZP26DyV2Vv/nJ
40q0tvrdUq4lkeGIgmQ+hqVlrB/j40tbRAGFbnlhNEh/EPxz11zC/tQHkU8jSe61Segq6G/Bj7x
rDJ19cWMZyXRteTTyS/AMYlIvuSA5Ue1mpWpCRDOwM8l0jP7WRo/etj7wmbKZYu0ZQdc+mVYPgH
v9M
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:2e1a:b0:748:2f8e:cd47 with SMTP id
d2e1a72fcca58-7482f8ed071mr14704660b3a.23.1749484580513; Mon, 09 Jun 2025
08:56:20 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <a86c2737-db79-4f54-9c1d-51beeb765163n@googlegroups.com>
<CAFvNmHRvjbo0OCFa3edCERXRFsz6yiAAPgzWrX5YxdtR9a4GiA@mail.gmail.com> <CAPfvXfKfAgVrFht8AUBOoyn28xwzHNr5BMg__OtRZfyBi1C1yw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAPfvXfKfAgVrFht8AUBOoyn28xwzHNr5BMg__OtRZfyBi1C1yw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2025 18:56:08 +0300
X-Gm-Features: AX0GCFtzWWdqgPAfqzqfsisqkVAyj7KcRI1nKMIpDj5V77YOsq32uFIRZETMg50
Message-ID: <CAFvNmHSQDkR9L7SAu95FmfASdrdjFPUmohEncjNcPHx2q4_9Fw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] CTV + CSFS: a letter
To: "James O'Beirne" <james.obeirne@gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Original-Sender: michaelfolkson@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass
header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=VUdn1How; spf=pass
(google.com: domain of michaelfolkson@gmail.com designates
2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=michaelfolkson@gmail.com;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
<https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/)
> I have consistently supported CTV for upwards of 3 years now. This should
be pretty clear based on a cursory read of my VAULT BIP's introduction:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0345.mediawiki#introduction
Sure but CTV has never been enough for what you personally want to do
(your flavor of vaults). You need OP_VAULT, OP_CCV or OP_CSFS right?
I don't mean to be a smart ass, I know how fiendishly difficult and
frustrating this covenants maze is with so many subtly different
views. But I think it is a fair challenge to try to understand exactly
what you want/need and whether you're going to want CCV etc in
addition at a later date or not.
Thanks
Michael
On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 5:41=E2=80=AFPM James O'Beirne <james.obeirne@gmail.=
com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 8:51=E2=80=AFAM Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@gm=
ail.com> wrote:
> > Having read that I assumed you would be working on CCV so I'm quite
> > surprised that a month later you're now proposing that CTV and CSFS be
> > prepared for activation.
>
> I have consistently supported CTV for upwards of 3 years now. This should
> be pretty clear based on a cursory read of my VAULT BIP's introduction:
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0345.mediawiki#introducti=
on
>
> In fact, I was at one point listed as a co-author because I was championi=
ng
> it: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1482
>
> I like CCV, but in my opinion it needs more time to be scrutinized by the
> community.
>
> Best,
> James
--=20
Michael Folkson
Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail.com
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
CAFvNmHSQDkR9L7SAu95FmfASdrdjFPUmohEncjNcPHx2q4_9Fw%40mail.gmail.com.
|