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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2025 17:58:24 +0000
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Chris Guida <chrisguida@gmail.com>
Cc: John Carvalho <john@synonym.to>, bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Censorship Resistant Transaction Relay - Taking out
the garbage(man)
Message-ID: <aD83wBeeuZ32bGjz@petertodd.org>
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On Mon, Jun 02, 2025 at 08:52:15PM -0600, Chris Guida wrote:
> "NODE_LIBRE_RELAY" is not defined anywhere in bitcoin core or any other
> official documentation. Bit 29 is just a random bit reserved for future
> use, as far as the bitcoin protocol itself is concerned. So when Peter sa=
ys
> Garbageman "falsely advertises the NODE_LIBRE_RELAY service bit", this is
> incorrect. It is not possible for GM or any other software to misuse this
> bit, as it has no official significance.
This is Bitcoin: there is no "official documentation".
What things mean is defined by customary usage. Which in this case is prett=
y
clear: Libre Relay is using the NODE_LIBRE_RELAY (bit 29) service bit.
> Peter himself, using Libre Relay, was ultimately responsible for getting
> this option defaulted to =E2=80=9Con=E2=80=9D in core, by taking the batt=
le directly to the
> mining pools. What the anti-filter crowd does not seem to realize is that
> Peter never would have succeeded if the noderunner community had been
> opposing him on this.
This is nonsense. In a sense, the noderunner community *was* opposed to
full-rbf for a very long time: hardly any nodes relayed full-rbf replacemen=
ts
until Bitcoin Core decided to turn it on by default.
As with Libre Relay, I maintained a full-rbf peering fork of Bitcoin Core,
advertising a FULL-RBF service bit, and a sufficiently large minority ran t=
hat
fork to relay full-rbf replacements to the miners that were interested in t=
hem.
As with Libre Relay, many of those miners didn't actually run that fork
themselves, and instead privately peered with my full-rbf peering nodes to
ensure they got the transactions they were interested in.
Funny enough, Bitcoin Knots also sybil attacked full-rbf peering, probably
unintentionally: Knots advertises the full-RBF peering bit without actually
doing the peering that makes the service bit worthwhile. For awhile there w=
ere
a sufficiently large number of Knots nodes that an actual full-rbf peering =
node
would tend to have only Knots nodes as peers. While at the same time, there
weren't enough Knots nodes to reliably propagate full-RBF replacements.
I fixed this problem by running a dozen or so genuine full-RBF peering node=
s,
each on a different VPS, and thus diverse address space (I went through a l=
ist
of Bitcoin accepting VPS's, and bought one from pretty much every VPS provi=
der
I could find in Ukraine - obviously their ISPs could use the revenue right
now).
> Yes, I=E2=80=99m sure there are strategies for getting LR nodes to detect=
GM nodes
> and banning them. And I=E2=80=99m equally sure that, if implemented:
>=20
> 1) Very few people will run them. Only LR nodes are likely to run the
> garbage-maximizing strategies Peter outlined above. I don=E2=80=99t know =
of any
> noderunners in their right minds who would run them.
> 2) The pro-spam-filtration noderunner community will work around these
> detection methods any way we can, and we will never give up.
Sounds like you don't actually have anything to say about my proposed
anti-censorship mechanism of measuring total fees relayed. That's a decent =
sign
that it does in fact work and garbageman has no way to defeat it.
Anyway, I think this conversation risks wasting the time of everyone on thi=
s
list, as you don't actually have anything technical to say. But I will say,
once cluster mempool is merged in Bitcoin Core, I'd be open to working with
anyone interested in either funding or implementing this (ideally as a pull=
-req
to Bitcoin Core - all Bitcoin nodes have an interest in bypassing censorshi=
p of
transactions they accept).
--=20
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
--=20
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