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From: "'Russell O'Connor' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2025 13:45:04 -0400
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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] BIP39 Extension for Manual Seed Phrase Creation
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On Wed, Jun 4, 2025 at 3:57=E2=80=AFAM pithosian <pithosian@i2pmail.org> wr=
ote:
> I'm not totally against thinking about different ways to (effectively)
> represent the data you'd use a descriptor for for simple use-cases,
> just not personally convinced on the utility of a purely
> hand-calculated mnemonic given the requirement of running (off the top
> of my head) SHA512 PBKDF2 for the BIP 32 seed, and a SHA512 HMAC for
> going from that to the root priv.
>
IMHO, the difference is that it is at least possible to cross-check the
derivation of pubkeys and addresses from the master seed using hardware
from different vendors. However it isn't really possible to cross-check
the quality of the initial random generation. Some people are going to
prefer to generate that randomness by hand in a fully transparent process
and not hidden within some computer chip using a noisy transistor or
whatever.
Once again, I want to reiterate for this thread that there already exists a
BIP for a hand-computable friendly master secret format, which is BIP-93
(codex32). Yes, hand computing the checksum for BIP-93 is a pain, but
unlike BIP-39's checksum, it is actually doable. And unlike BIP-39's
checksum, the checksum for codex32 is actually an error-correcting code, so
you can actually repair errors and erasures in the data. It is even
possible to use an untrusted computer to repair your codex32 string so that
the computer learns practically zero information about your secret or
secret share.
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 4, 2025 at 3:57=E2=80=AFAM pit=
hosian <<a href=3D"mailto:pithosian@i2pmail.org">pithosian@i2pmail.org</=
a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I&=
#39;m not totally against thinking about different ways to (effectively)<br=
>
represent the data you'd use a descriptor for for simple use-cases,<br>
just not personally convinced on the utility of a purely<br>
hand-calculated mnemonic given the requirement of running (off the top<br>
of my head) SHA512 PBKDF2 for the BIP 32 seed, and a SHA512 HMAC for<br>
going from that to the root priv.<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><div>IMH=
O, the difference is that it is at least possible to cross-check the deriva=
tion of pubkeys and addresses from the master seed using hardware from diff=
erent vendors.=C2=A0 However it isn't really possible to cross-check th=
e quality of the initial random generation.=C2=A0 Some people are going to =
prefer to generate that randomness by hand in a fully transparent process a=
nd not hidden within some computer chip using a noisy transistor or whateve=
r.</div><div><br></div><div>Once again, I want to reiterate for this thread=
that there already exists a BIP for a hand-computable friendly master secr=
et format, which is BIP-93 (codex32).=C2=A0 Yes, hand computing the checksu=
m for BIP-93 is a pain, but unlike BIP-39's checksum, it is actually do=
able.=C2=A0 And unlike BIP-39's checksum, the checksum for codex32 is a=
ctually an error-correcting code, so you can actually repair errors and era=
sures in the data.=C2=A0 It is even possible to use an untrusted computer t=
o repair your codex32 string so that the computer learns practically zero i=
nformation about your secret or secret share.</div><div><br></div></div></d=
iv>
<p></p>
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