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From: Tamas Blummer <tamas.blummer@gmail.com>
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To: ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized covenants with taproot enable
 riskless or risky lending,
 prevent credit inflation through fractional reserve
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Hello ZmnSCPxj,

> On Jul 2, 2019, at 12:33, ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 =
Original Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=
=80=90
> On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 5:30 PM, Tamas Blummer =
<tamas.blummer@gmail.com <mailto:tamas.blummer@gmail.com>> wrote:
>=20
>> The advertiser would thereby put the funds of the HODLer on risk of =
his misbehavior, which means the HODLer would have to trust the =
advertizing service.
>=20
> No it would not :)


You are right. I noticed after sending my reply and then I sent two =
other. I apologize for being noisy.

Let me consolidate my thinking, here.

If there is a use for UTXOs with temporary control, then those who want =
that use will pay for it.

A user of a service that requires temporary control UTXOs would need to =
cover:

1. fees required by the service
2. the opportunity cost of temporary ownership paid to the original =
holder who gave up control.

If the service is operated by an entity billing user then it can use =
UTXOs of minimal value for its operation and practically ignore =
opportunity interest.
This is the case with theater tickets just and other simple colored coin =
like use of Bitcoin. Also in case of the unchained advertizement, if the =
service bills its user
for its internal re-allocation of an UTXO, then why would it need to use =
significant value temorary control UTXOs? Actually why not use plain =
UTXOs, to start with?

If however the service is a common good, a network without owner and =
therefore not billing on behalf of someone, but wants to protect itself =
from spam, then it is could require temporary access to significant =
value UTXOs and thereby induce opportunity cost to user. Alternatively =
it could require burning ordinary UTXOs. Burning indirectly benefits all =
HODLer, temporary control benefits those who consciously gave up =
control. I dislike burning as it is unsustainable.

If the implementation of temporary use is enforced by consenus such that =
it is transitive, then temporary use could be re-rented or sold to =
recover opportunity cost for no longer needed temporary access, making =
it useable for an other service.

Temporary access UTXOs with covenants allows us to build spam limited =
public services that are not owned by an operator and financially =
benefit HODLer offering them riskless interest.

Tamas Blummer

--Apple-Mail=_115EBD6F-24E7-4D7D-ADFB-60E1B963DEF6
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Hello =
ZmnSCPxj,</div><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Jul 2, 2019, at 12:33, ZmnSCPxj &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com" =
class=3D"">ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><div class=3D""><br=
 style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline =
!important;" class=3D"">=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=
=90=E2=80=90 Original Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=
=E2=80=90=E2=80=90</span><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 5:30 PM, Tamas =
Blummer &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:tamas.blummer@gmail.com" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">tamas.blummer@gmail.com</a><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">&gt; wrote:</span><br style=3D"font-family:=
 Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">The advertiser would thereby =
put the funds of the HODLer on risk of his misbehavior, which means the =
HODLer would have to trust the advertizing service.<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: =
inline !important;" class=3D"">No it would not :)</span><br =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">You are right. I noticed after sending =
my reply and then I sent two other. I apologize for being =
noisy.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Let me =
consolidate my thinking, here.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If there is a use for UTXOs with =
temporary control, then those who want that use will pay for =
it.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">A =
user of a service that requires temporary control UTXOs would need to =
cover:&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">1. =
fees required by the service</div><div class=3D"">2. the opportunity =
cost of temporary ownership paid to the original holder who gave up =
control.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If =
the service is operated by an entity billing user then it can use UTXOs =
of minimal value for its operation and practically ignore opportunity =
interest.</div><div class=3D"">This is the case with theater tickets =
just and other simple colored coin like use of Bitcoin. Also in case of =
the unchained advertizement, if the service bills its =
user&nbsp;</div><div class=3D"">for its internal re-allocation of an =
UTXO, then why would it need to use significant value temorary control =
UTXOs? Actually why not use plain UTXOs, to start with?</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If however the service =
is a common good, a network without owner and therefore not billing on =
behalf of someone, but wants to protect itself from spam, then it is =
could require temporary access to significant value UTXOs and thereby =
induce opportunity cost to user. Alternatively it could require burning =
ordinary UTXOs. Burning indirectly benefits all HODLer, temporary =
control benefits those who consciously gave up control. I dislike =
burning as it is unsustainable.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If the implementation of temporary use =
is enforced by consenus such that it is transitive, then temporary use =
could be re-rented or sold to recover opportunity cost for no longer =
needed temporary access, making it useable for an other =
service.&nbsp;</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Temporary access UTXOs with covenants allows us to build spam =
limited public services that are not owned by an operator and =
financially benefit HODLer offering them riskless interest.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Tamas =
Blummer</div></body></html>=

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