1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
|
Delivery-date: Wed, 11 Jun 2025 17:02:22 -0700
Received: from mail-ot1-f58.google.com ([209.85.210.58])
by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
(Exim 4.94.2)
(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBDVJRHEUX4BRBBFSVDBAMGQED745XAY@googlegroups.com>)
id 1uPVOf-0000zb-JN
for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Wed, 11 Jun 2025 17:02:22 -0700
Received: by mail-ot1-f58.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-739f86ef076sf146704a34.3
for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Wed, 11 Jun 2025 17:02:21 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1749686536; cv=pass;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=Zi1i8fne1v5FRGKCPkQg5qr+aEONsg+WZP5pfi9x1q2iY43SF8pscEVVF48ObhKcF+
gl1Q2xjhJEZINQV45coJqlJ4CfcFBURk+hfS5voWcYH7DA2rFlvD7gh/Dm08wOKJ67ZI
+KWqxLynn5xsCCU9yWX0Elb6NTqz+5RiQIf06uGatlYgX1esxCjurMkvUMyJV8L9gP04
XOg8vzKjHt88ZPv4hd1rR/ueRnwbLHDDTehpTolz+7BHr2Pdr8brkWspLxFIIWkciw1K
gCR2vJiNlpU6fxl0UTP0XXm4vwTHT+rxwid64ie65FPKYxmBFyjEzELO/5V/im6sFx8C
hITw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:in-reply-to:content-disposition
:mime-version:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:sender
:dkim-signature;
bh=C7wMwmgSnLH+K23L0O1T0075pyv8kn4kITRB1s1dm8k=;
fh=JOpPAH5uDR2jDnx5a28z21GKbI+G5M8Mv5esgHWigFA=;
b=BHhno9d7/al7sNiOeU0C3PFi4cZBupOZdVTQvSxV30nvudgdKEVicQqkjyFvAiL5Pq
8KF8w2XjTUYoe01s90xTs/TEmPq7lLLY6tYGpY1TFHbX9g6TFmEfjYV9rY+VVOYGm6aW
IFVouViEyL4yrLhvxAQBc/AH+9BHjyBooh5AVryl7tFYIMTtIRDTCU5hNo2kk8rsLocV
8SvcZxmCn7kcdiebRhOsOxNtm2m/laR4Te6H9mfFY2MRW1DtbmH5lCB5glFoSbL5liVm
8WTSRAdxepdEsYCIIt9MOB/b1eZD8COlkatI9pV57h09InPqP4JtT48U1FHbl16+mZdn
Xbrw==;
darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@reardencode.com header.s=mail header.b=ha3jG2c6;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of freedom@reardencode.com designates 206.125.169.165 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freedom@reardencode.com;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=reardencode.com
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1749686536; x=1750291336; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version
:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:sender:from:to:cc
:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=C7wMwmgSnLH+K23L0O1T0075pyv8kn4kITRB1s1dm8k=;
b=AAEBiomS8mQ0Xf22MMUFM+tCg5Vx8fLgmBaAvg8Tf/N45PP9dNE5ApcICeqRFyvzeo
eNbj85k3qwqRsCS4FpxgqKV84aC7NK93DIEbiGhs56ZfXzN7+lWJpAx0qfd+H5GBnK/9
W/FIyA7A6vc+XMgNRAuW/Ft+ePfx+fWAI9nCQYvESJUPUB9D7Mq7PAbbZFI9RzRyMirV
SBPC8JxV8nHfCKsCKOsjHz9JA0IakkzE8gkL6RfszoHEfAft2eLC0FHL+JL23zm4i7ZY
NLqFewHxr56iN+1S6inTpeYhT4wtCxU0f7YLm8enT7yebg+F1IUL1EHpIba2eq2brzr7
VSWQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1749686536; x=1750291336;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version
:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-beenthere
:x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
:reply-to;
bh=C7wMwmgSnLH+K23L0O1T0075pyv8kn4kITRB1s1dm8k=;
b=mXBDRPeeU+g16QIrVX+wUPhGo45giCTVvp9v4Z4QJ+Wudm+yxBu9h9+gTGkBUECcLX
wm/8Dcdwl9ni/8Hduq0PAuYuH6kn06AW89dmTecvyjGOYwCC9fSZcUxBx5qEYN+tunML
ekMDFsKRcOEw+5Dk1oa090RFKXko5MC+oiSWBHH34p+r0wtZfMhlJpd9pPWfHmfoisLc
JyG3T0oIHRSZmJtIcOs7WItRLq/2x8hHzwxEuhyepsdXE3uZAj9ZXyqp/fiYnb5GLSbh
bEqWmU0VHU2pAQBB7QaaRhPssEty17YVorvK1ZqI8ZjgqIUAF1/ODLHQUiQ+z9NdO2uM
IhOw==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCVgorSnRlU2a35Dctj7O7DJUEDu9tVCNDxpI2NKUYd1R6osP4jR3nxmnzRpZpXYVS7uc+aFaf4JANvw@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxgGltbBKt7ZI5WhJVHIQSDegp79KmScdPk1clwI8ja6uxb9Dta
bhM0EkxEgopqxsTz32SOcl7Kkzf/RhVd49pCsxW9dfASV96jFc3alXuv
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFSD1sXHXYaE15Cmys11MXrc72slxQ5n1vI5IYi7+RvygYui+12ULO4I2ziQeFAUhEbl3Ld1w==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:ac21:b0:2c3:1680:d1a9 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2eab4333771mr848132fac.22.1749686535745;
Wed, 11 Jun 2025 17:02:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=AZMbMZcUf0eKaqGd/v4Ox9b/Wd9h4eSdaE2qdSA0Y7wVwkyolg==
Received: by 2002:a4a:cb83:0:b0:60f:195e:84fc with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-610fd219441ls75114eaf.0.-pod-prod-04-us;
Wed, 11 Jun 2025 17:02:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCUiYR7rsCpkiUYmuE1eukl4Zmlr/6BpHpiviwkPn+nqz6UbnwmXRPJw2U3X+pTxNr8jNOJp0LFDTYEc@googlegroups.com
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:191d:b0:404:c561:6225 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-40a661b53d6mr932442b6e.30.1749686532407;
Wed, 11 Jun 2025 17:02:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1a88:b0:3f6:a384:eb6f with SMTP id 5614622812f47-40a5d2bf598msb6e;
Wed, 11 Jun 2025 11:09:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCUSqlHdj3FZv1cnkmoAEeFn7zYd+tW2moy6f8WaOEOzR+pVlp3AFu5+ojj7GXYuEzz5m9Z0mc27uoq3@googlegroups.com
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:3888:b0:86d:5b7:5a42 with SMTP id ca18e2360f4ac-875c5dcd7c1mr135933839f.4.1749665371582;
Wed, 11 Jun 2025 11:09:31 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1749665371; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=K/BVpycxneRCXSDB7672deR3vq9TFckld17/UZcCSw1PCjITCqKnrJRhwuatSmqYwi
z+KnNnUfz7EoqBnODwFzLgiGX9RWlDH2ePO2qsz65cxEAxupzfIwOKdyoKcPMFYV60xz
6YRRj8aeayB6Ax1v/cxIQUi8thSUDr0Xa38HeFnIlTMaSQRhoTCdmOoVs30tgjOOuHOf
Fcs126vE8lZkbGfOi1mkPPQ43yQizCvEvWms9M/Usvjc/GpzAonWymk+Wzy6WIG2dRS7
z0EkxYoJRxkGHI0ZjixNe9a/QxdGn9v8Nxpmv0ShJNq3Td+e+Ts7uTQtOKQQEj8rEpjj
rS7w==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id
:subject:cc:to:from:dkim-signature:date;
bh=HIA/MCnGVuabmbuhVZCNul8pSRvLIvRfgHyTi3Ib4qk=;
fh=rcb/GOy0f86RZEuHKHkV4LfwtDrpPnfvT7WaJtv3OJU=;
b=JtvVkms7pWvtZ1Cb3mOlXEnwTo08GioVAOsMznsvaQ27sdaen9MqhDmXRxQ7RR5CbI
8ejMiRMIIn+ShUefaVvGzU/imCOR2XRNmZW6ynwb/qUxb04qHzrUm1sokT+8ncjAppi0
0wzWYqyXxut0fXX8oCBujqK1E2eK5WDO21GgBz4fxRpBSsRL+noeci22KWEAT4qy+J0g
YcQ0PWfEJ6moQhIwf6PtSX/qjy5nxE4GWpdaC+EKNvb4i2Uuoafwyebb/U/k8041FKaI
ROqSf31euMZCm8R8ItCQf7+fuSXUzQiVeIxTdnVma17wvGnhxWgoC2j/P9kbhfBh2bQz
fWMw==;
dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@reardencode.com header.s=mail header.b=ha3jG2c6;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of freedom@reardencode.com designates 206.125.169.165 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freedom@reardencode.com;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=reardencode.com
Received: from mail.reardencode.com (mail.reardencode.com. [206.125.169.165])
by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ca18e2360f4ac-875bc46b987si12168439f.0.2025.06.11.11.09.31
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
Wed, 11 Jun 2025 11:09:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of freedom@reardencode.com designates 206.125.169.165 as permitted sender) client-ip=206.125.169.165;
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2025 11:09:24 -0700
From: Brandon Black <freedom@reardencode.com>
To: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl>
Cc: James O'Beirne <james.obeirne@gmail.com>,
Andrew Poelstra <apoelstra@wpsoftware.net>,
"David A. Harding" <dave@dtrt.org>,
Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] CTV + CSFS: a letter
Message-ID: <aEnGVB5vlUrz66OL@console>
References: <a86c2737-db79-4f54-9c1d-51beeb765163n@googlegroups.com>
<aEdoIvOgNNtT6L4s@mail.wpsoftware.net>
<195051b7c393b9a28727e87647ac002b@dtrt.org>
<CAPfvXf+0M2PPYOAuWNt9EFWBXGspkZ3xDXKb9Tm7MW8RO3X0aA@mail.gmail.com>
<0B7CEBEE-FB2B-41CF-9347-B9C1C246B94D@sprovoost.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <0B7CEBEE-FB2B-41CF-9347-B9C1C246B94D@sprovoost.nl>
X-Operating-System: Linux 6.6.36 x86_64
X-Original-Sender: freedom@reardencode.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass
header.i=@reardencode.com header.s=mail header.b=ha3jG2c6; spf=pass
(google.com: domain of freedom@reardencode.com designates 206.125.169.165 as
permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freedom@reardencode.com; dmarc=pass
(p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=reardencode.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
<https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/)
Hi Sjors,
On 2025-06-10 (Tue) at 18:56:54 +0200, Sjors Provoost wrote:
> From both your and Andrew's mail we can distill a relevant factor: pretty much everyone who is excited about (feature) soft forks is not working on Bitcoin Core.
>
> A few, such as yourself and Jeremy, were in the past but stopped doing so.
>
> Although trying to persuade more people inside the project to review and further develop these proposals is useful - methods and tone tbd - also consider the opposite: convince more people who want these changes to start contributing to Bitcoin Core.
[...]
> 1. It takes years to ramp up. The best time to plant a tree is ten years ago. But it's been six years and multiple developers could have been ramped up by now. To be fair, grant budgets were pretty tight until only two years ago.[1]
You might notice that there's a strong correlation of new developers
interested in potentially making improvements to bitcoin's consensus
rules _not_ investing the years to ramp up on the project starting about
the same time that the CTV and APO proposals were abandoned.
This open letter reflects the reality that if none of the central
members of a project are working in the direction that an enthusiastic
outsider is interested in pursuing it is approximately impossible for
that outsider to ramp up on the project and reasonably hope to achieve
their goals.
I have not discussed this with other signatories to the letter, but I
suspect that a commitment to mentor and support developers working on
consensus improvements from the broader bitcoin core project would also
constitute a satisfactory response.
While we the signatories believe that CTV+CSFS is a positive direction
for consensus improvements on bitcoin, I don't think any of us would say
that it is the only possible positive consensus improvement. The primary
thrust of this letter is that consensus improvements should be
prioritized alongside other work on bitcoin core. In an environment
where consensus improvements were given equal billing to relay, p2p,
build system, refactoring and other current project priorities this
letter would never have been authored, signed, nor published.
Fond regards,
--Brandon
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/aEnGVB5vlUrz66OL%40console.
|
