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From: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org>
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To: Billy Tetrud <billy.tetrud@gmail.com>
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Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proof of reserves - recording
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> On Jul 9, 2021, at 10:44, Billy Tetrud <billy.tetrud@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> > there is an unsupportable leap being made here
>=20
> You think that because you're misinterpreting me. I'm in no way claiming t=
hat any solvent company can prove it, I'm simply claiming that any company c=
an prove that they have bitcoin reserves to cover bitcoins promised as accou=
nt balances.=20
You can prove that in your own wallet. All other scenarios imply lending (wh=
ich is what is implied by =E2=80=9Creserve=E2=80=9D) and lending cannot be 1=
00% reserve.
> > Banks (lending institutions) do not operate under any such pretense
>=20
> You seem to be saying that banks are under no legal obligation to serve ca=
sh on demand to customers. While you might be right,
I am, as banks are lending institutions.
> again you're misinterpreting me. Banks do in fact make claims to their cus=
tomers that they'll be able to get cash out of their account on demand.
Up to the insured limit, in 7 days. This is of course true because the taxpa=
yer has insured the bank to that level.
> They're called demand deposit accounts for a reason.
They are time deposits, read your bank agreement. Not that it makes any diff=
erence. How the contract is satisfied is not a term of the contract, just th=
at it is. And as I pointed out, money markets have had no reserve requiremen=
t and have a nearly spotless record of satisfying their obligations.
> And certainly customers expect to be able to withdraw their cash on demand=
.=20
Irrelevant.
> > With a 100% of investment cash hoard, there is zero lending and zero ret=
urn
>=20
> I did say "pretend" did I not?
See above.
> > =E2=80=9Crelate to=E2=80=9D is a far cry from 100% =E2=80=9Creserve=E2=80=
=9D
>=20
> Indeed. Again, you seem to be misunderstanding me. You're putting the word=
s "100% reserve" in my mouth, when I never said any such thing. Proof of 80%=
/50%/20% reserves is still useful if that's the clear expectation for the cu=
stomer/client.
Without 100% =E2=80=9Creserve=E2=80=9D there is no way to cryptographically d=
emonstrate =E2=80=9Csolvency=E2=80=9D. And even with that, investors would h=
ave to accept the promise that there are no other liabilities.
The schemes don=E2=80=99t preclude hacks, insider or otherwise, bankruptcy, o=
r state seizure, no matter what the reserve.
It=E2=80=99s information, sure, but it=E2=80=99s not what people seem to thi=
nk. If one wants full reserve banking, use a wallet. If one wants to invest,=
the money will be spent - that=E2=80=99s why it was raised. There can be no=
covenant placed on it that will ensure it=E2=80=99s return.
e
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