path: root/72/ec6d9891877fff45d754751cbc88956c227f68

Delivery-date: Mon, 29 Sep 2025 08:30:50 -0700
Received: from mail-oa1-f57.google.com ([209.85.160.57])
	by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps  (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
	(Exim 4.94.2)
	(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBCRPNUVY7YIBBHWM5LDAMGQEOWMDXBQ@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1v3Fpx-0005Y4-KZ
	for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Mon, 29 Sep 2025 08:30:50 -0700
Received: by mail-oa1-f57.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-30cce517292sf42863fac.0
        for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Mon, 29 Sep 2025 08:30:49 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1759159843; cv=pass;
        d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        b=WKdoxaXuMjEr0+VFDPIDrS505y1BV1nVI34Ok14C4iu7VD3sIsTjUOGxV4beMeafVm
         U8wDfJzhLVHSj6S1h5ICwcEGaPLhx/5IZ60HU+9XtcIF3bZ3oH4cEg2LJcNeYReSF8td
         V9mRcFtltjkf8cx0x4I4z8LTyQC//Gzx+nO4N1Fn7PgE8tdWJ+pw4+vu5v1DEAh7R4Ud
         3RTpYRCcS0xVHAU8bnjkkaUVww+VbXjblxaCdzxYzxyY95NDxOK6s815q/rzPxibS8S9
         diwHxIRhl1QG8hMiDJWkEkcOiPyqRb9kGNP1Xzg0qCy4l/Gdag1BIFBdcCKSK7hAw09V
         XGcQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:to:subject:message-id:date:from
         :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:sender:dkim-signature
         :dkim-signature;
        bh=CDcpR8miUOOdUIJAWStG5zVzfWC6T8C+X79VcLgbtNc=;
        fh=UP4xrutAms9NIK8Hly5GlcboElPl6JMrjdK5h5vCobQ=;
        b=SdWXucK5ZPM83DpL8QFIEMfC5NMw1pBqQA0LBQu3J3n17YQ+XHEkrsUIwY5ByTK2ZH
         S6YZmygJq5faF33kMp3CMKQLFAOBw6QeBjc3JkovPUkOelOydywY9MV/QdzBJzFZRQCj
         L0LbXHricldb2tu9H0YFNJbnINgNp/3GrJN3JXZf4wQ6mzjSmZx3PV1sfs9Mf0L2fyXl
         vm3GQIBwSwkNLozW0YqfVaw1QCE6BrW3TAVmw7SF/2cOjpeqnBuQm8/ZsUkWglYA7g8P
         6Qv/Feh1bStadWrK2julV0PszaBP0w9Gx2P3dZRX3T/HdcjWnPSgqoLb4EMuMBOoWtIe
         q+rw==;
        darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
       dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=WjCYNTrz;
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of paplorinc@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=paplorinc@gmail.com;
       dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
       dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1759159843; x=1759764643; darn=gnusha.org;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
         :x-original-sender:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to
         :references:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
         :reply-to;
        bh=CDcpR8miUOOdUIJAWStG5zVzfWC6T8C+X79VcLgbtNc=;
        b=sIWn+qkz+52vg0SX4z3c3ElnL6LG+IrT0m6hnyXQJTHvhlQ4c+Onpkc6gM4wCn0rZk
         PzT+nleryIyZF2LZyuw9hXshrYWA373f9bzampHYkaUucsSPkEW3GZfT6tFQjsu3fxTC
         Qo8XMYsW7yYnpBmDraZqv1SLaGsnXjcQlNH0HxpGmUpuixBdGRWu0p+wG8Ncpl6LZ8BK
         3x2lmEMq1UrNtn74TvjyxiuO/5XMIm6OVQvlQbhvI5s/gMR1Ek8MdbXzxufH3ha0J4Pd
         WvRa54mQws8lCHqJ1aksablpxjwnWdBekod3naPeTOOKDC0DP9LM46GksqgTOYaIujzB
         HaRQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1759159843; x=1759764643; darn=gnusha.org;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
         :x-original-sender:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to
         :references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
        bh=CDcpR8miUOOdUIJAWStG5zVzfWC6T8C+X79VcLgbtNc=;
        b=jhfbQt9d5nC7R28E+9Al8UTfrXx4HN69wnSO6d/w0djIwZTEQFhd3tQ77azgv1WllA
         J63Wl/tcn/UOXYiMuXaV6BIyxDPBXSJNCQ3cpXULVFNcwy7c4q1527zKDhxEqXGdQys1
         /ulkUAlYdB4yHl+vzNLbkb+FGhr+4/1/1cpk0JftF7aEjT3aqVdDC53G9KxbDX73aG44
         rE+XV2mAGY6ikqUiaQbupt2XSy8/U7/Vs3C+iT1nybeQoiaKk3+VFl+kvxQtngAKR5Yu
         68w61auvAuds4jrGGMixXF8cE5t3yRKml8fzJCaZNNwSiVrYN40fvL9mRvXTRpq2P3hi
         RIyw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1759159843; x=1759764643;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
         :x-original-sender:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to
         :references:mime-version:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from
         :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
        bh=CDcpR8miUOOdUIJAWStG5zVzfWC6T8C+X79VcLgbtNc=;
        b=kqhbTTYaMxQPw/L7Ia+0Ssh3dfWWWVPJEnV3LCTyw5gYTy1faXeYjeES6WK6LRo0QN
         +sjQJpqjPyL0pMoZE7hxk8FvhLM2ttCidwTZHqOAz9jjE831tsHE/67qCI3MrizcOQxo
         M7URAnNSlGEZL7utZIgAl+wZ3RF+xc9pkq+JtgEHq0kTX3m5BgazfPwPg4EYFSBj1Hml
         NmhuFC563ukuaSycOBVsoXATUQHi/VECy7fVO6cceDl3lnxkBrc7YQKXS7+msgr/FJ9l
         cIa6DHne5yMQzTME5t4JlpFGLHN63FttTex6oukBRfp+CJPaSjhCKj4P7SmdP2rkL59g
         GASg==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCXiir1T9JnVLL+9v3Cy+Zid7ItBUFpm5wGiF6Y46YaQMmktGKza4g6wqFP0WkejR9/UBqLhMK4o+Cxe@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwON3dKrqy466hSZ2qJSr8sTi/zqC5TAE986cBoc0ZtBHAfNWXM
	UOZaCe4v77N7WMtv2k6e4IpmjvLf6PtlgG5HE7S0CijcI061Fp/Oq8gX
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHJM6pk78KKJjVOMHe6RKHgosW0tZGyEPPa8DXlNcm07p9dkaB2C/cPoB2snnuudXfT6X3YFQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:17a5:b0:31d:676c:b002 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-35ee7202fbcmr9405248fac.26.1759159842468;
        Mon, 29 Sep 2025 08:30:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h="ARHlJd4Lr+PNpra0D8H1eluJ9klZ+ZeCs5eL0CN/0NZpMfoP8g=="
Received: by 2002:a05:6870:9108:b0:380:63e1:8c0c with SMTP id
 586e51a60fabf-380640f5854ls489127fac.1.-pod-prod-02-us; Mon, 29 Sep 2025
 08:30:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:6c91:b0:43f:64bc:8b7e with SMTP id 5614622812f47-43f64bc9a28mr4543155b6e.15.1759159838729;
        Mon, 29 Sep 2025 08:30:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 2002:a05:690c:2849:b0:720:768:1935 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-76bc85a4d3fms7b3;
        Mon, 29 Sep 2025 08:24:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:7005:b0:75b:ad36:e329 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-763fb0a6fe1mr242152737b3.10.1759159468907;
        Mon, 29 Sep 2025 08:24:28 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1759159468; cv=none;
        d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        b=M97wohapjNLwGE5daTffRSLVBioATehiBtHQCJ4CF7loXh8j9vcpxFoccMcPSc07yM
         wmMeyIz6mRiimeay6dRl4QuRE+dlYvj/mrRWRKkG7ndriu9OKARULfYJWiDXvAZaBr7s
         oHa9D39g63ipzyl4Z3tbtr/CNrP1duH/IJv39kAllLcnevGTMArKoVTdGWx0QLakAXYV
         zCCRZujYMJD79L14k456tSOKhR99Fe79P404zdO+vk5uDBBr/n1Epz21t99CSaecNRjK
         qUMcM4VnZFzNmE3GPdYLaGLba+P6zacNO2DIa6ifAJ5NWhKIH/Es9CvFYkiXLD4qn+Ka
         +YXg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version
         :dkim-signature;
        bh=L6Z3/vV4XDvtPL+7Zv7t2KaqRVLdIcjsJGuffxQiRjA=;
        fh=DMP0F9ULS1guKiqimntQRCN8ZraraesEgQuVcn7F0Z0=;
        b=BGA4Yf2sfMz/1DrQ3ZtDnhXVps0v/ayAfGDwbLKxO2S9rH2gAcGVctyMbG7/z4rgoY
         REOU7ghkQfleSpRXrXuaN1jIOrBV6ZV5/pp1g2o/tLN33BMkWAOAg7pfBc+BQutKO7p8
         lGND13mdjOLmKv95BUBcoJ13JxWJEVD6s2Y83TMpIU4SBSa+Xtihw3qqgboakTszp4fh
         zedJGwsIjPt9SY8lwB8ORxdPApqxarlcp2vyLjnDfDAWaDcZy0KaiOMrH4paXGYh+rDb
         0cnZG8m7TRPBo9qtM1VgQwkLiibQjaA6aa94r5wItZlOXB0+6/Cl3sjBqDB8MDVfkUB3
         iedg==;
        dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
       dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=WjCYNTrz;
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of paplorinc@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=paplorinc@gmail.com;
       dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
       dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
Received: from mail-pj1-x1030.google.com (mail-pj1-x1030.google.com. [2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 00721157ae682-765cabc60c6si4568527b3.1.2025.09.29.08.24.28
        for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
        Mon, 29 Sep 2025 08:24:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of paplorinc@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030;
Received: by mail-pj1-x1030.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-33082c95fd0so4861188a91.1
        for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>; Mon, 29 Sep 2025 08:24:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncu4Elo4GXtpvSgUYyRdxccUiCZ2D5KdVPTC7wQaC9kcZf7IF04g/gbspBKjSiB
	HQ+pmHFFezvGEGbrLBy7mHQdNmdRJzydPNP3NHiAF0ME8Wim27s5NcaVdGT9KJ0rHMswZO55QGW
	gygrnsWLPn7C9ybICiUDfNdXxiXMM+Zei31XEfvu+6V1MGMOeLBNzQpKf/0tDsxRGl1pbzQhNjL
	BzmUsuPdrKpwMAiAfLfP6JG1zo=
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3888:b0:32e:5646:d448 with SMTP id
 98e67ed59e1d1-3342a2c3596mr20542198a91.21.1759159467512; Mon, 29 Sep 2025
 08:24:27 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <aNaUjR7QTqWvtZLa@mail.wpsoftware.net> <CAAANnUz3V-ciTB1+9tUz8yByhd66UpyPJTZEQFrPRMjLXZfdwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALL0pNF4b+rNYrgws0QY_LQP6QeVMEhLiOrFL4f-H3Ahf2ePDw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CALL0pNF4b+rNYrgws0QY_LQP6QeVMEhLiOrFL4f-H3Ahf2ePDw@mail.gmail.com>
From: =?UTF-8?Q?L=C5=91rinc?= <paplorinc@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2025 11:24:16 -0400
X-Gm-Features: AS18NWCRf-AEDsn_S6do3nHdMwc4DQ-uUWk3gSb30KlkOwvkJo7x1bHYiJ9RleI
Message-ID: <CALL0pNFxsRCF00CN3YwSZOnoATB=zAdZQXpKvy_4oAOjRx40=A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [BIP Proposal] Mempool Validation and Relay Policies
 via User-Defined Scripts]
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002a1816063ff23bf6"
X-Original-Sender: paplorinc@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       dkim=pass
 header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=WjCYNTrz;       spf=pass
 (google.com: domain of paplorinc@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030
 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=paplorinc@gmail.com;       dmarc=pass
 (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;       dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
 <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/)

--0000000000002a1816063ff23bf6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

This is a slightly friendlier version of a previous reply I sent to Chris
already:

--------

> The tripling of the utxoset within a couple of years has raised the
minimum cost of joining the network from ~$150 to ~$250

I will be short: we want blocks to be full, blockchains are meant to grow,
and even cheap nodes were more expensive in the past than what we can have
now (which are also a lot more performant).

I bought a node in 2021 for ~$330 (which is *~$400* inflation adjusted) and
it struggled with 700k blocks for weeks:
https://x.com/L0RINC/status/1968189583180579188
If you're into storing the whole chain for some reason, you can have the
same for *~$170* now and it will finish IBD in less than 1 day, depending
on your internet speed (with average global speed just downloading it takes
~16 hours), see https://x.com/L0RINC/status/1967679285168386135.
But you can also get a very good fully validating pruned node for *$111*
(e.g. https://gist.github.com/l0rinc/5a44ffa174857bc9c680a8e4bfc40a88),
which can likely finish an IBD in ~2-3 days.
You can even buy one for *$99*, but that would indeed be quite slow, but
even that would likely finish IBD in a week. You can go even cheaper with
second-hand hardware. But I'm not sure why we would want to go lower than
the price of a single night in a hotel...

> core devs have done nothing to prevent it from happening again

Core devs progressively made the latest version 250% faster than v23
https://x.com/L0RINC/status/1970918510248575358.
And we still have other unmerged optimizations, so the situation is
expected to be even better in upcoming releases. On my laptop our unmerged
changes can fully reindex in ~2 hours. And with a SwiftSync prototype I
have even done a reindex-chainstate on a battery-powered cheap rpi5 (+
monitoring over wifi) in ~3:14 hours (pi on a pi - and the batteries were
still 70% full): https://x.com/L0RINC/status/1972062557835088347.
The situation has never been better, you can now do IBD from batteries!

> core devs should listen to their users

Twitter is not a representative sample (and neither are you).
In the free market, participants produce stuff and the usage is the
feedback, not the online complaining.

> the most popular merchant node hardware (the RPi 4B 4GB) can no longer
sync the chain in under a month, and the next cheapest hardware that can do
so is much more expensive.

I also retested an old Raspberry Pi 4b with 8gb: IBD with v30 finished in *71h
36m 44s (<3 days) *until ~916k blocks with default dbcache.
With a 5GB dbcache it would likely be even faster, I just wanted to see the
worst case.

> Reducing data spam (or utxoset workarounds like libbitcoin) are what we
should be focusing on to increase participation in the node network.

I don't see how *spent + unspent* can be smaller than just the unspent set.

> but practically everyone with a low-resource node noticed extreme
increases in IBD times due to spam

It's not the "spam", that's very cheap to validate. They just likely forgot
to update the node (leaving the assumevalid height early and they're doing
too many useless script validations) or are writing on cheap SD cards with
10MB/s rate or are doing IBD over TOR or are leaving the dbcache size at
default or increasing it to the total memory size and are constantly
swapping, or have enabled all optional indexes, etc.
I agree these should be better documented, it's why
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33336 and
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33333 were opened: if only you used
all this anger to educate people and help, instead of blaming the firetruck
for the fire...

> The purpose is to raise costs on spammers

Why do you focus on hating people who disagree with you, even when that
hurts honest participants?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CALL0pNFxsRCF00CN3YwSZOnoATB%3DzAdZQXpKvy_4oAOjRx40%3DA%40mail.gmail.com.

--0000000000002a1816063ff23bf6
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">This is a=C2=A0slightly=C2=A0friendlier version of a previ=
ous reply I sent to Chris already:<div><br></div><div>--------<br><br>&gt; =
The tripling of the utxoset within a couple of years has raised the minimum=
 cost of joining the network from ~$150 to ~$250<br><br>I will be short: we=
 want blocks to be full, blockchains are meant to grow, and even cheap node=
s were more expensive in the past than what we can have now (which are also=
 a lot more performant).<br><br>I bought a node in 2021 for ~$330 (which is=
 <b>~$400</b> inflation adjusted) and it struggled with 700k blocks for wee=
ks: <a href=3D"https://x.com/L0RINC/status/1968189583180579188">https://x.c=
om/L0RINC/status/1968189583180579188</a><br>If you&#39;re into storing the =
whole chain for some reason, you can have the same for=C2=A0<b>~$170</b>=C2=
=A0now and it will finish IBD in less than 1 day, depending on your interne=
t speed (with average global speed just downloading it takes ~16 hours), se=
e <a href=3D"https://x.com/L0RINC/status/1967679285168386135">https://x.com=
/L0RINC/status/1967679285168386135</a>.<div>But you can also get a very goo=
d fully validating pruned node for <b>$111</b> (e.g. <a href=3D"https://gis=
t.github.com/l0rinc/5a44ffa174857bc9c680a8e4bfc40a88">https://gist.github.c=
om/l0rinc/5a44ffa174857bc9c680a8e4bfc40a88</a>), which can likely finish an=
 IBD in ~2-3 days.<br>You can even buy one for <b>$99</b>, but that would i=
ndeed be quite slow, but even that would likely finish IBD in a week. You c=
an go even cheaper with second-hand hardware. But I&#39;m not sure why we w=
ould want to go lower than the price of a single night in a hotel...<br><br=
>&gt; core devs have done nothing to prevent it from happening again<br><br=
>Core devs progressively made the latest version 250% faster than v23 <a hr=
ef=3D"https://x.com/L0RINC/status/1970918510248575358">https://x.com/L0RINC=
/status/1970918510248575358</a>.<br>And we still have other unmerged optimi=
zations, so the situation is expected to be even better in upcoming release=
s. On my laptop our unmerged changes can fully reindex in ~2 hours. And wit=
h a SwiftSync prototype I have even done a reindex-chainstate on a battery-=
powered cheap rpi5 (+ monitoring over wifi) in ~3:14 hours (pi on a pi - an=
d the batteries were still 70% full): <a href=3D"https://x.com/L0RINC/statu=
s/1972062557835088347">https://x.com/L0RINC/status/1972062557835088347</a>.=
<br>The situation has never been better, you can now do IBD from batteries!=
<br><br>&gt; core devs should listen to their users<br><br>Twitter is not a=
 representative sample (and neither are you).</div><div>In the free market,=
 participants produce stuff and the usage is the feedback, not the online c=
omplaining.<br><br>&gt; the most popular merchant node hardware (the RPi 4B=
 4GB) can no longer sync the chain in under a month, and the next cheapest =
hardware that can do so is much more expensive.<br><br>I also retested an o=
ld Raspberry Pi 4b with 8gb: IBD with v30 finished in <b>71h 36m 44s (&lt;3=
 days) </b>until ~916k blocks with default dbcache.</div><div>With a 5GB db=
cache it would likely be even faster, I just wanted to see the worst case.<=
br><br>&gt; Reducing data spam (or utxoset workarounds like libbitcoin) are=
 what we should be focusing on to increase participation in the node networ=
k.<br><br>I don&#39;t see how <b>spent + unspent</b> can be smaller than ju=
st the unspent set.<br><br>&gt; but practically everyone with a low-resourc=
e node noticed extreme increases in IBD times due to spam<br><br>It&#39;s n=
ot the &quot;spam&quot;, that&#39;s very cheap to validate. They just likel=
y forgot to update the node (leaving the assumevalid height early and they&=
#39;re doing too many useless script validations) or are writing on cheap S=
D cards with 10MB/s rate or are doing IBD over TOR or are leaving the dbcac=
he size at default or increasing it to the total memory size and are consta=
ntly swapping, or have enabled all optional indexes, etc.<br>I agree these =
should be better documented, it&#39;s why <a href=3D"https://github.com/bit=
coin/bitcoin/pull/33336">https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33336</a> =
and <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33333">https://githu=
b.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33333</a> were opened: if only you used all this=
 anger to educate people and help, instead of blaming the firetruck for the=
 fire...<br><br>&gt; The purpose is to raise costs on spammers<br><br>Why d=
o you focus on hating people who disagree with you, even when that hurts ho=
nest participants?</div></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bitcoind=
ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
bitcoindev/CALL0pNFxsRCF00CN3YwSZOnoATB%3DzAdZQXpKvy_4oAOjRx40%3DA%40mail.g=
mail.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.com/=
d/msgid/bitcoindev/CALL0pNFxsRCF00CN3YwSZOnoATB%3DzAdZQXpKvy_4oAOjRx40%3DA%=
40mail.gmail.com</a>.<br />

--0000000000002a1816063ff23bf6--