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To: Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com>, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
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From: Aymeric Vitte <aymeric@peersm.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Rebroadcast mechanism in Bitcoin P2P network
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Using the Tor network to bypass censorship for bitcoin can work but is a
very poor solution, the Tor network is very centralized, very small,
watched and controlled, with plenty of features that do not apply to
other protocols than those made to be used with the Tor Browser, Pieter
gave a simple example, that you can solve easily changing the circuits,
the problem remains that you really need to be a super expert to escape
all the dangers of the Tor network, not even sure it's possible unless
you use something else than the Tor project code
Believe it or not, node-Tor is a more than ten years old project (and
not a duplicate of the Tor network), so I know what I am talking about,
different studies of mine show also that the more you try to hide the
more you can get caught, even on really decentralized networks like
bittorrent, unlike another common belief that in such big networks it's
difficult to track/deanonymize peers, it is not
Extra measures like rebroadcasting can maybe add something, but back to
the previous sentence, extra measures can also help to catch/track you
if not well designed/thought
What I am proposing since years, not only to bitcoin, is to use the Tor
protocol independently of the Tor network, and from the browsers also
acting as nodes (not to be misunderstood with the Tor Browser, this has
nothing to do) probably someone one day will understand it
Le 12/12/2021 =C3=A0 14:38, Karl a =C3=A9crit :
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 12, 2021, 7:42 AM Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>
> Indeed, I reiterate that using the Tor network for Bitcoin or
> whatever protocol not related to the Tor Browser (ie browsing and
> HS) does not make sense, for plenty of reasons
>
>
> Please cite this. It is very hard to believe.
>
> Personally, I have encountered network blocking of bitcoin peers, and
> Tor is one way to reconnect with the network when this happens.
>
>
> Regardless, reasonable rebroadcasting of nonlocal transactions is a
> hands-down good thing. This does not make them anonymous, but it does
> make it a little harder to track their origin, and additionally it
> makes their transmission more robust.
>
> Every extra measure is a good thing, as everything eventually fails.
>
--=20
Sophia-Antipolis, France
LinkedIn: https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): https://peersm.com/wallet
Bitcoin transactions made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transac=
tions
torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
Zcash wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets
Bitcoin wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.p=
eersm.com
Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
--------------480D5C2B51483B6B4A6745E3
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<p>Using the Tor network to bypass censorship for bitcoin can work
but is a very poor solution, the Tor network is very centralized,
very small, watched and controlled, with plenty of features that
do not apply to other protocols than those made to be used with
the Tor Browser, Pieter gave a simple example, that you can solve
easily changing the circuits, the problem remains that you really
need to be a super expert to escape all the dangers of the Tor
network, not even sure it's possible unless you use something else
than the Tor project code<br>
</p>
<p>Believe it or not, node-Tor is a more than ten years old project
(and not a duplicate of the Tor network), so I know what I am
talking about, different studies of mine show also that the more
you try to hide the more you can get caught, even on really
decentralized networks like bittorrent, unlike another common
belief that in such big networks it's difficult to
track/deanonymize peers, it is not</p>
<p>Extra measures like rebroadcasting can maybe add something, but
back to the previous sentence, extra measures can also help to
catch/track you if not well designed/thought<br>
</p>
What I am proposing since years, not only to bitcoin, is to use the
Tor protocol independently of the Tor network, and from the browsers
also acting as nodes (not to be misunderstood with the Tor Browser,
this has nothing to do) probably someone one day will understand it<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 12/12/2021 à 14:38, Karl a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CALL-=e5mv5cr=Oqip0ob8P2XCbWPgOc67nnRjn7_OuDXPYUpVg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div dir="auto">
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 12, 2021, 7:42
AM Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Indeed, I reiterate <span lang="en"><span><span>that
using the Tor network for Bitcoin or whatever
protocol not related to the Tor Browser (ie
browsing and HS) does not make sense, for plenty
of reasons</span></span></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Please cite this. It is very hard to believe.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Personally, I have encountered network blocking
of bitcoin peers, and Tor is one way to reconnect with the
network when this happens.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Regardless, reasonable rebroadcasting of
nonlocal transactions is a hands-down good thing. This does
not make them anonymous, but it does make it a little harder
to track their origin, and additionally it makes their
transmission more robust.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Every extra measure is a good thing, as
everything eventually fails.</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> </div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Sophia-Antipolis, France
LinkedIn: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26">https://fr.linkedin.com/in/aymeric-vitte-05855b26</a>
GitHub : <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms">https://www.github.com/Ayms</a>
Move your coins by yourself (browser version): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://peersm.com/wallet">https://peersm.com/wallet</a>
Bitcoin transactions made simple: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions">https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-transactions</a>
torrent-live: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live">https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live</a>
node-Tor : <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor">https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor</a>
Zcash wallets made simple: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets">https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets</a>
Bitcoin wallets made simple: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets">https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets</a>
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://torrent-live.peersm.com">http://torrent-live.peersm.com</a>
Peersm : <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.peersm.com">http://www.peersm.com</a></pre>
</body>
</html>
--------------480D5C2B51483B6B4A6745E3--
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