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Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2025 15:23:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Javier Mateos <javierpmateos@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Message-Id: <fe4acdff-67ba-4fc6-8844-92d3bd7ca402n@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <1c7817fa-6451-4256-b8ce-ddca45abbf52@mattcorallo.com>
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 <912fd35e-02f5-49b5-b373-ca02806d952f@mattcorallo.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Against Allowing Quantum Recovery of Bitcoin
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Hi everyone!

Seeing the discussions about transitioning to quantum-resistant signatures,=
=20
I notice three main concerns:

   -=20
  =20
   What should be done with vulnerable funds? Freeze them or leave them=20
   exposed?
   -=20
  =20
   How can the transition be made without affecting Bitcoin=E2=80=99s stabi=
lity or=20
   dividing the community?
   -=20
  =20
   How can we avoid market chaos if the transition is disorderly?
  =20
Personally, I believe the key is a gradual, well-planned transition based=
=20
on incentives rather than abrupt changes that create uncertainty.

I can think of a three-phase approach:

=F0=9F=94=B9 First, allow users to add optional PQC keys to their Taproot a=
ddresses=20
starting now.
=F0=9F=94=B9 Then, before the quantum threat becomes real, introduce a soft=
 fork that=20
disables vulnerable signatures, but with a long migration period (at least=
=20
four years).
=F0=9F=94=B9 Finally, when the threat is imminent, gradually phase out old =
signatures=20
instead of forcing a sudden change.

For this to work, adoption should be incentivized=E2=80=94for example, with=
 lower=20
fees for secure transactions and wallet tools that facilitate a smooth=20
transition. Additionally, real-time monitoring of vulnerable addresses=20
would help mitigate risks.

Another key point is to avoid panic. Instead of a sudden "D-Day" where=20
everything changes at once, the deactivation of old UTXOs should be=20
gradual, with clear communication so no one feels forced or disadvantaged.

In summary, this is not about imposing rules or confiscating anything, but=
=20
about providing options for an orderly transition that doesn=E2=80=99t comp=
romise=20
Bitcoin=E2=80=99s philosophy.

-Javier Mateos

El viernes, 28 de marzo de 2025 a las 21:02:43 UTC-3, Matt Corallo escribi=
=C3=B3:

>
>
> On 3/25/25 4:16 AM, Sjors Provoost wrote:
> > Matt Corallo wrote:
> >=20
> >>> In that scenario you'd need to use a NUMS point for the key path. Or=
=20
> maybe that's unsafe, in which case we'd need a new Taproot version withou=
t=20
> key path support (or BIP360). That's also not a difficult soft fork, but=
=20
> now again you have something that only a small set of users will want to=
=20
> use.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> A NUMS point does not suffice unless we explicitly soft-fork out=20
> spending from that NUMS point (which is, of course, doable).
> >=20
> > This could be a solution to the sequencing conundrum that I tried to=20
> explain.
> >=20
> > Along with the first PCQ scheme for tapscript (script path), we could=
=20
> have a soft that disables one or more NUMS points. The latter has zero=20
> effect under the current cryptographic assumptions, so it's not=20
> confiscatory.
> >=20
> > That way people can start using the scheme without having to worry abou=
t=20
> whether the community decides to freeze key path spending in time. They'l=
l=20
> still worry about the market value of their coins, but not about whether=
=20
> they're going to be the first victim (or the umpteenth victim while=20
> everyone is in denial and blames them for poor key management).
>
>
> Mmm, yea, fair enough, that seems perfectly reasonable to include.
>
> Matt
>

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
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<p>Hi everyone!</p><p>Seeing the discussions about transitioning to quantum=
-resistant signatures, I notice three main concerns:</p><ul><li><p>What sho=
uld be done with vulnerable funds? Freeze them or leave them exposed?</p></=
li><li><p>How can the transition be made without affecting Bitcoin=E2=80=99=
s stability or dividing the community?</p></li><li><p>How can we avoid mark=
et chaos if the transition is disorderly?</p></li></ul><p>Personally, I bel=
ieve the key is a gradual, well-planned transition based on incentives rath=
er than abrupt changes that create uncertainty.</p><p>I can think of a thre=
e-phase approach:</p><p>=F0=9F=94=B9 First, allow users to add optional PQC=
 keys to their Taproot addresses starting now.<br />=F0=9F=94=B9 Then, befo=
re the quantum threat becomes real, introduce a soft fork that disables vul=
nerable signatures, but with a long migration period (at least four years).=
<br />=F0=9F=94=B9 Finally, when the threat is imminent, gradually phase ou=
t old signatures instead of forcing a sudden change.</p><p>For this to work=
, adoption should be incentivized=E2=80=94for example, with lower fees for =
secure transactions and wallet tools that facilitate a smooth transition. A=
dditionally, real-time monitoring of vulnerable addresses would help mitiga=
te risks.</p><p>Another key point is to avoid panic. Instead of a sudden "D=
-Day" where everything changes at once, the deactivation of old UTXOs shoul=
d be gradual, with clear communication so no one feels forced or disadvanta=
ged.</p><p>In summary, this is not about imposing rules or confiscating any=
thing, but about providing options for an orderly transition that doesn=E2=
=80=99t compromise Bitcoin=E2=80=99s philosophy.</p><p>-Javier Mateos</p><b=
r /><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_attr">El vi=
ernes, 28 de marzo de 2025 a las 21:02:43 UTC-3, Matt Corallo escribi=C3=B3=
:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex;=
 border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
<br>On 3/25/25 4:16 AM, Sjors Provoost wrote:
<br>&gt; Matt Corallo wrote:
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; In that scenario you&#39;d need to use a NUMS point for th=
e key path. Or maybe that&#39;s unsafe, in which case we&#39;d need a new T=
aproot version without key path support (or BIP360). That&#39;s also not a =
difficult soft fork, but now again you have something that only a small set=
 of users will want to use.
<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
<br>&gt;&gt; A NUMS point does not suffice unless we explicitly soft-fork o=
ut spending from that NUMS point (which is, of course, doable).
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; This could be a solution to the sequencing conundrum that I tried =
to explain.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; Along with the first PCQ scheme for tapscript (script path), we co=
uld have a soft that disables one or more NUMS points. The latter has zero =
effect under the current cryptographic assumptions, so it&#39;s not confisc=
atory.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; That way people can start using the scheme without having to worry=
 about whether the community decides to freeze key path spending in time. T=
hey&#39;ll still worry about the market value of their coins, but not about=
 whether they&#39;re going to be the first victim (or the umpteenth victim =
while everyone is in denial and blames them for poor key management).
<br>
<br>
<br>Mmm, yea, fair enough, that seems perfectly reasonable to include.
<br>
<br>Matt
<br></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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