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From: Billy Tetrud <billy.tetrud@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 15:10:49 -0500
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To: pushd <pushd@protonmail.com>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Cc: Anthony Towns <aj@erisian.com.au>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Speedy Trial
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@Pushd

> Speedy trial makes it worse by misleading lot of bitcoin users including
miners to consider signaling as voting and majority votes decide if a soft
fork gets activated

No it does not. This narrative is the worst. A bad explanation of speedy
trial can mislead people into thinking miner signalling is how Bitcoin
upgrades are voted in. But a bad explanation can explain anything badly.
The solution is not to change how we engineer soft forks, it's to explain
speedy trial better to this imaginary group of important people that think
miner signaling is voting.

We shouldn't change how we engineer Bitcoin because of optics. I completely
object to that point continuing to be used.

On Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 05:36 pushd via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> > Any case where a flawed proposal makes it through getting activation
> parameters set and released, but doesn't achieve supermajority hashpower
> support is made worse by bip8/lot=true in comparison to speedy trial.
>
> - Flawed proposal making it through activation is a failure of review
> process
>
> - Supermajority hashpower percentage decided by bitcoin core developers
> can choose to not follow old or new consensus rules at any point
>
> - Speedy trial makes it worse by misleading lot of bitcoin users including
> miners to consider signaling as voting and majority votes decide if a soft
> fork gets activated
>
> - BIP 8/LOT=TRUE keeps things simple. Miners need to follow consensus
> rules as they do right now if they wish to mine blocks for subsidy and fees.
>
>
> Note: Mining pools or individual miners can participate in soft fork
> discussions regardless of activation method and share their concern which
> can be evaluated based on technical merits.
>
>
> pushd
> ---
>
> parallel lines meet at infinity?
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">@Pushd<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt;=
=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:12.8px">Speedy trial makes=
 it worse by misleading lot of bitcoin users including miners to consider s=
ignaling as=C2=A0voting and majority votes decide if a soft fork gets activ=
ated</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"arial"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12.8px"><br></span></font><span style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:=
12.8px"></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"arial"><span style=3D"=
font-size:12.8px">No it does not. This narrative is the worst. A bad explan=
ation of speedy trial can mislead people into thinking miner signalling is =
how Bitcoin upgrades are voted in. But a bad explanation can explain anythi=
ng badly. The solution is not to change how we engineer soft forks, it&#39;=
s to explain speedy trial better to this imaginary group of important peopl=
e that think miner signaling is voting.=C2=A0</span></font></div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><font face=3D"arial"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></span>=
</font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"arial"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:12.8px">We shouldn&#39;t change how we engineer Bitcoin because of optics=
. I completely object to that point continuing to be used.</span></font></d=
iv></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att=
r">On Wed, Mar 30, 2022, 05:36 pushd via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.or=
g</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"font=
-family:arial;font-size:14px">&gt;=C2=A0<span>Any case where a flawed propo=
sal makes it through getting activation</span><div><span>parameters set and=
 released, but doesn&#39;t achieve supermajority hashpower</span></div><spa=
n>support is made worse by bip8/lot=3Dtrue in comparison to speedy trial.</=
span></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div><=
span style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">- Flawed proposal making it=
 through activation is a failure of review process</span><div style=3D"font=
-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;fon=
t-size:14px"><span>- Supermajority hashpower percentage decided by bitcoin =
core developers can choose to not follow old or new consensus rules at any =
point</span></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div=
><div><font face=3D"arial">- Speedy trial makes it worse by misleading lot =
of bitcoin users including miners to consider signaling as=C2=A0voting and =
majority votes decide if a soft fork gets activated</font></div><div style=
=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:a=
rial;font-size:14px"><span>- BIP 8/LOT=3DTRUE keeps things simple. Miners n=
eed to follow consensus rules as they do right now if they wish to mine blo=
cks for subsidy and fees.</span></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-=
size:14px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px"><br></=
div><span style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">Note: Mining pools or =
individual miners can participate in soft fork discussions regardless of ac=
tivation method and share their concern which can be evaluated based on tec=
hnical merits.</span><br></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:arial;font-s=
ize:14px"><br></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">=
<br></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial;font-size:14px">
    <div>
        <span style=3D"font-family:arial">pushd</span><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial">---</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial"><br></div><span style=
=3D"font-family:arial">parallel lines meet at infinity?</span></div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noreferrer">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundati=
on.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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