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Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2025 10:19:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Saint Wenhao <saintwenhao@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] The Future of Bitcoin Testnet
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> Should we plan for a reset of testnet?

Surprisingly, it is a very good question. However, replacing testnet3 with=
=20
testnet4, by just dropping support for the old network, should not be=20
called "reset", but rather "abandon". So, the question is: should we mine a=
=20
new Genesis Block, at height one, on top of the current Genesis Block from=
=20
testnet3, and trigger the biggest possible chain reorganization, where the=
=20
whole chain is reorged in a backward-compatible way?

Also I wonder, if that method of introducing testnet5, by doing it on top=
=20
of testnet4's Genesis Block is worth considering. Because then, some=20
planned changes, like entirely dropping the difficulty reset, could be=20
potentially turned from hard-fork into just a regular soft-fork, supported=
=20
by hashrate majority.

And of course, reorging everything is an edge case, that we may want to see=
=20
on any testnet first, before anyone will succeed with that on the main=20
network, if SHA-256 will ever be broken, and if re-hashing the whole chain=
=20
will be needed.

poniedzia=C5=82ek, 31 marca 2025 o 22:41:20 UTC+2 Garlo Nicon napisa=C5=82(=
a):

> > 4. As a result, TBTC is being actively bought and sold; one could argue=
=20
> that the fundamental principle of testnet coins having no value has been=
=20
> broken.
>
> Now, some time passed, so we can look at the history, and get some=20
> conclusions. In case of testnet4, the same thing happened. And some peopl=
e=20
> consider testnets as altcoins:=20
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D5536825.0
> Which means, that if new testnets will be released in a similar way, then=
=20
> none of them will be worthless.
>
> niedziela, 5 maja 2024 o 15:12:08 UTC+2 Peter Todd napisa=C5=82(a):
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 11:46:59AM -0700, Matthew Bagazinski wrote:=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > Unfortunately, the current form of Testnet is doomed to have value, jus=
t=20
> > like BTC. Its scarcity makes it a valuable asset. And no reset will=20
> change=20
> > that. It will only result in repeated resets, multiple versions of=20
> testnet,=20
> > and people never learning.=20
>
> The scarcity of testnet BTC isn't the only valuable asset in testnet;=20
> testnet=20
> blockchain space itself is a scarce, valuable, asset. It's an asset that=
=20
> we=20
> can't easily make worthless, even through testnet resets, as there are=20
> usecases=20
> (including scams) where the long-term persistence of the data doesn't=20
> matter.=20
>
> --=20
> https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org=20
>
>

--=20
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
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&gt; Should we plan for a reset of testnet?<br /><br />Surprisingly, it is =
a very good question. However, replacing testnet3 with testnet4, by just dr=
opping support for the old network, should not be called "reset", but rathe=
r "abandon". So, the question is: should we mine a new Genesis Block, at he=
ight one, on top of the current Genesis Block from testnet3, and trigger th=
e biggest possible chain reorganization, where the whole chain is reorged i=
n a backward-compatible way?<br /><br />Also I wonder, if that method of in=
troducing testnet5, by doing it on top of testnet4's Genesis Block is worth=
 considering. Because then, some planned changes, like entirely dropping th=
e difficulty reset, could be potentially turned from hard-fork into just a =
regular soft-fork, supported by hashrate majority.<br /><br />And of course=
, reorging everything is an edge case, that we may want to see on any testn=
et first, before anyone will succeed with that on the main network, if SHA-=
256 will ever be broken, and if re-hashing the whole chain will be needed.<=
br /><br /><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_attr=
">poniedzia=C5=82ek, 31 marca 2025 o=C2=A022:41:20 UTC+2 Garlo Nicon napisa=
=C5=82(a):<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0=
 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">&g=
t; 4. As a result, TBTC is being actively bought and sold; one could argue =
that the fundamental principle of testnet coins having no value has been br=
oken.<br><br>Now, some time passed, so we can look at the history, and get =
some conclusions. In case of testnet4, the same thing happened. And some pe=
ople consider testnets as altcoins: <a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/inde=
x.php?topic=3D5536825.0" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedire=
cturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Dpl&amp;q=3Dhttps://bitcointalk.org=
/index.php?topic%3D5536825.0&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1745687920091000&=
amp;usg=3DAOvVaw38tHqcQb0ht6R6knZoH1Cf">https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?t=
opic=3D5536825.0</a><br>Which means, that if new testnets will be released =
in a similar way, then none of them will be worthless.<br><br><div><div dir=
=3D"auto">niedziela, 5 maja 2024 o=C2=A015:12:08 UTC+2 Peter Todd napisa=C5=
=82(a):<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:=
1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 11:46:=
59AM -0700, Matthew Bagazinski wrote:
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; Unfortunately, the current form of Testnet is doomed to have value=
, just=20
<br>&gt; like BTC. Its scarcity makes it a valuable asset. And no reset wil=
l change=20
<br>&gt; that. It will only result in repeated resets, multiple versions of=
 testnet,=20
<br>&gt; and people never learning.
<br>
<br>The scarcity of testnet BTC isn&#39;t the only valuable asset in testne=
t; testnet
<br>blockchain space itself is a scarce, valuable, asset. It&#39;s an asset=
 that we
<br>can&#39;t easily make worthless, even through testnet resets, as there =
are usecases
<br>(including scams) where the long-term persistence of the data doesn&#39=
;t matter.
<br>
<br>--=20
<br><a href=3D"https://petertodd.org" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" da=
ta-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Dpl&amp;q=3Dhttps://pe=
tertodd.org&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1745687920091000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3=
oaoPkbZ1itxh6H4kFmo5I">https://petertodd.org</a> &#39;peter&#39;[:-1]@<a hr=
ef=3D"http://petertodd.org" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-safered=
irecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Dpl&amp;q=3Dhttp://petertodd.org=
&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1745687920091000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3LZI4JvZ5R08=
fUO63SDi1e">petertodd.org</a>
<br></blockquote></div></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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