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From: Jim Phillips <jim@ergophobia.org>
Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 03:29:31 -0500
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To: gabe appleton <gappleto97@gmail.com>
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] No Bitcoin For You
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I think all the suggestions recommending cutting the block time down also
suggest reducing the rewards to compensate.

--
*James G. Phillips IV*
<https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts>
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe>

*"Don't bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Aim for the company of immortals."
-- David Ogilvy*

 *This message was created with 100% recycled electrons. Please think twice
before printing.*

On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 12:43 AM, gabe appleton <gappleto97@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Sync time wouldn't be longer compared to 20MB, it would (eventually) be
> longer under either setup.
>
> Also, and this is probably a silly concern, but wouldn't changing block
> time change the supply curve? If we cut the rate in half or a power of tw=
o,
> that affects nothing, but if we want to keep it in round numbers, we need
> to do it by 10, 5, or 2. I feel like most people would bank for 10 or 5,
> both of which change the supply curve due to truncation.
>
> Again, it's a trivial concern, but probably one that should be addressed.
> On May 25, 2015 11:52 PM, "Jim Phillips" <jim@ergophobia.org> wrote:
>
>> Incidentally, even once we have the "Internet of Things" brought on by
>> 21, Inc. or whoever beats them to it, I would expect the average home to
>> have only a single full node "hub" receiving the blockchain and
>> broadcasting transactions created by all the minor SPV connected devices
>> running within the house. The in-home full node would be peered with hig=
h
>> bandwidth full-node relays running at the ISP or in the cloud. There are
>> more than enough ISPs and cloud compute providers in the world such that
>> there should be no concern at all about centralization of relays. Full
>> nodes could some day become as ubiquitous on the Internet as authoritati=
ve
>> DNS servers. And just like DNS servers, if you don't trust the nodes you=
r
>> ISP creates or it's too slow or censors transactions, there's nothing
>> preventing you from peering with nodes hosted by the Googles or OpenDNSs
>> out there, or running your own if you're really paranoid and have a few
>> extra bucks for a VPS.
>>
>> --
>> *James G. Phillips IV*
>> <https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts>
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe>
>>
>> *"Don't bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Aim for the company of
>> immortals." -- David Ogilvy*
>>
>>  *This message was created with 100% recycled electrons. Please think
>> twice before printing.*
>>
>> On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Jim Phillips <jim@ergophobia.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't see how the fact that my 2Mbps connection causes me to not be a
>>> very good relay has any bearing on whether or not the network as a whol=
e
>>> would be negatively impacted by a 20MB block. My inability to rapidly
>>> propagate blocks doesn't really harm the network. It's only if MOST rel=
ays
>>> are as slow as mine that it creates an issue. I'm one node in thousands
>>> (potentially tens or hundreds of thousands if/when Bitcoin goes
>>> mainstream). And I'm an individual. There's no reason at all for me to =
run
>>> a full node from my home, except to have my own trusted and validated c=
opy
>>> of the blockchain on a computer I control directly. I don't need to act=
 as
>>> a relay for that and as long as I can download blocks faster than they =
are
>>> created I'm fine. Also, I can easily afford a VPS server or several to =
run
>>> full nodes as relays if I am feeling altruistic. It's actually cheaper =
for
>>> me to lease a VPS than to keep my own home PC on 24/7, which is why I h=
ave
>>> 2 of them.
>>>
>>> And as a business, the cost of a server and bandwidth to run a full nod=
e
>>> is a drop in the bucket. I'm involved in several projects where we have
>>> full nodes running on leased servers with multiple 1Gbps connections. I=
t's
>>> an almost zero cost. Those nodes could handle 20MB blocks today without
>>> thinking about it, and I'm sure our nodes are just a few amongst thousa=
nds
>>> just like them. I'm not at all concerned about the network being too
>>> centralized.
>>>
>>> What concerns me is the fact that we are using edge cases like my home
>>> PC as a lame excuse to debate expanding the capacity of the network.
>>>
>>> --
>>> *James G. Phillips IV*
>>> <https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts>
>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe>
>>>
>>> *"Don't bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Aim for the company of
>>> immortals." -- David Ogilvy*
>>>
>>>  *This message was created with 100% recycled electrons. Please think
>>> twice before printing.*
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 10:02 PM, Thy Shizzle <thyshizzle@outlook.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Indeed Jim, your internet connection makes a good reason why I don't
>>>> like 20mb blocks (right now). It would take you well over a minute to
>>>> download the block before you could even relay it on, so much slow dow=
n in
>>>> propagation! Yes I do see how decreasing the time to create blocks is =
a bit
>>>> of a band-aid fix, and to use tge term I've seen mentioned here "kicki=
ng
>>>> the can down the road" I agree that this is doing this, however as you=
 say
>>>> bandwidth is our biggest enemy right now and so hopefully by the time =
we
>>>> exceed the capacity gained by the decrease in block time, we can then =
look
>>>> to bump up block size because hopefully 20mbps connections will be bas=
eline
>>>> by then etc.
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>> From: Jim Phillips <jim@ergophobia.org>
>>>> Sent: =E2=80=8E26/=E2=80=8E05/=E2=80=8E2015 12:53 PM
>>>> To: Thy Shizzle <thyshizzle@outlook.com>
>>>> Cc: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>; Bitcoin Dev
>>>> <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] No Bitcoin For You
>>>>
>>>>  Frankly I'm good with either way. I'm definitely in favor of faster
>>>> confirmation times.
>>>>
>>>>  The important thing is that we need to increase the amount of
>>>> transactions that get into blocks over a given time frame to a point t=
hat
>>>> is in line with what current technology can handle. We can handle WAY =
more
>>>> than we are doing right now. The Bitcoin network is not currently Disk=
,
>>>> CPU, or RAM bound.. Not even close. The metric we're closest to being
>>>> restricted by would be Network bandwidth. I live in a developing count=
ry.
>>>> 2Mbps is a typical broadband speed here (although 5Mbps and 10Mbps
>>>> connections are affordable). That equates to about 17MB per minute, or=
 170x
>>>> more capacity than what I need to receive a full copy of the blockchai=
n if
>>>> I only talk to one peer. If I relay to say 10 peers, I can still handl=
e 17x
>>>> larger block sizes on a slow 2Mbps connection.
>>>>
>>>>  Also, even if we reduce the difficulty so that we're doing 1MB blocks
>>>> every minute, that's still only 10MB every 10 minutes. Eventually we'r=
e
>>>> going to have to increase that, and we can only reduce the confirmatio=
n
>>>> period so much. I think someone once said 30 seconds or so is about th=
e
>>>> shortest period you can practically achieve.
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>> *James G. Phillips IV*
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts>
>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe>
>>>>
>>>> *"Don't bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Aim for the company of
>>>> immortals." -- David Ogilvy *
>>>>
>>>>   *This message was created with 100% recycled electrons. Please think
>>>> twice before printing.*
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 9:30 PM, Thy Shizzle <thyshizzle@outlook.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Nah don't make blocks 20mb, then you are slowing down block
>>>> propagation and blowing out conf tikes as a result. Just decrease the =
time
>>>> it takes to make a 1mb block, then you still see the same propagation =
times
>>>> today and just increase the transaction throughput.
>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>> From: Jim Phillips <jim@ergophobia.org>
>>>> Sent: =E2=80=8E26/=E2=80=8E05/=E2=80=8E2015 12:27 PM
>>>> To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
>>>> Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] No Bitcoin For You
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   This meme about datacenter-sized nodes has to die. The Bitcoin wiki
>>>> is down right now, but I showed years ago that you could keep up with =
VISA
>>>> on a single well specced server with today's technology. Only people l=
iving
>>>> in a dreamworld think that Bitcoin might actually have to match that l=
evel
>>>> of transaction demand with today's hardware. As noted previously, "too=
 many
>>>> users" is simply not a problem Bitcoin has .... and may never have!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ... And will certainly NEVER have if we can't solve the capacity
>>>> problem SOON.
>>>>
>>>>  In a former life, I was a capacity planner for Bank of America's
>>>> mid-range server group. We had one hard and fast rule. When you are
>>>> typically exceeding 75% of capacity on a given metric, it's time to ex=
pand
>>>> capacity. Period. You don't do silly things like adjusting the busines=
s
>>>> model to disincentivize use. Unless there's some flaw in the system an=
d
>>>> it's leaking resources, if usage has increased to the point where you =
are
>>>> at or near the limits of capacity, you expand capacity. It's as simple=
 as
>>>> that, and I've found that same rule fits quite well in a number of sys=
tems.
>>>>
>>>>  In Bitcoin, we're not leaking resources. There's no flaw. The system
>>>> is performing as intended. Usage is increasing because it works so wel=
l,
>>>> and there is huge potential for future growth as we identify more uses=
 and
>>>> attract more users. There might be a few technical things we can do to
>>>> reduce consumption, but the metric we're concerned with right now is h=
ow
>>>> many transactions we can fit in a block. We've broken through the 75%
>>>> marker and are regularly bumping up against the 100% limit.
>>>>
>>>>  It is time to stop debating this and take action to expand capacity.
>>>> The only questions that should remain are how much capacity do we add,=
 and
>>>> how soon can we do it. Given that most existing computer systems and
>>>> networks can easily handle 20MB blocks every 10 minutes, and given tha=
t
>>>> that will increase capacity 20-fold, I can't think of a single reason =
why
>>>> we can't go to 20MB as soon as humanly possible. And in a few years, w=
hen
>>>> the average block size is over 15MB, we bump it up again to as high as=
 we
>>>> can go then without pushing typical computers or networks beyond their
>>>> capacity. We can worry about ways to slow down growth without affectin=
g the
>>>> usefulness of Bitcoin as we get closer to the hard technical limits on=
 our
>>>> capacity.
>>>>
>>>>  And you know what else? If miners need higher fees to accommodate the
>>>> costs of bigger blocks, they can configure their nodes to only mine
>>>> transactions with higher fees.. Let the miners decide how to charge en=
ough
>>>> to pay for their costs. We don't need to cripple the network just for =
them.
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>> *James G. Phillips IV*
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts>
>>>>
>>>> *"Don't bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Aim for the company of
>>>> immortals." -- David Ogilvy *
>>>>
>>>>   *This message was created with 100% recycled electrons. Please think
>>>> twice before printing.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
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>>
>>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I think all the suggestions recommending cutting the block=
 time down also suggest reducing the rewards to compensate.</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div=
>--<div><b>James G. Phillips IV</b>=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://plus.google.com=
/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts" style=3D"font-size:x-small" target=3D"_bl=
ank"><img src=3D"https://ssl.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png"></a>=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe" target=3D"_blank"><img =
src=3D"http://developer.linkedin.com/sites/default/files/LinkedIn_Logo16px.=
png"></a></div></div><div><font size=3D"1"><i>&quot;Don&#39;t bunt. Aim out=
 of the ball park. Aim for the company of immortals.&quot; -- David Ogilvy<=
br></i></font><div><font size=3D"1"><br></font></div></div><div><font size=
=3D"1"><img src=3D"http://findicons.com/files/icons/1156/fugue/16/leaf.png"=
>=C2=A0<em style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:verdana,g=
eneva,sans-serif;line-height:16px;color:green">This message was created wit=
h 100% recycled electrons. Please think twice before printing.</em></font><=
/div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 12:43 AM, gabe apple=
ton <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gappleto97@gmail.com" target=3D=
"_blank">gappleto97@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr">Sync time wouldn&#39;t be longer compared to 20MB=
, it would (eventually) be longer under either setup.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Also, and this is probably a silly concern, but wouldn&#39;t=
 changing block time change the supply curve? If we cut the rate in half or=
 a power of two, that affects nothing, but if we want to keep it in round n=
umbers, we need to do it by 10, 5, or 2. I feel like most people would bank=
 for 10 or 5, both of which change the supply curve due to truncation.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Again, it&#39;s a trivial concern, but probably one that sho=
uld be addressed.</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"h5">On May 25, 2015 11:52 PM,=
 &quot;Jim Phillips&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jim@ergophobia.org" target=
=3D"_blank">jim@ergophobia.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"></div=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h5"><div dir=3D"lt=
r">Incidentally, even once we have the &quot;Internet of Things&quot; broug=
ht on by 21, Inc. or whoever beats them to it, I would expect the average h=
ome to have only a single full node &quot;hub&quot; receiving the blockchai=
n and broadcasting transactions created by all the minor SPV connected devi=
ces running within the house. The in-home full node would be peered with hi=
gh bandwidth full-node relays running at the ISP or in the cloud. There are=
 more than enough ISPs and cloud compute providers in the world such that t=
here should be no concern at all about centralization of relays. Full nodes=
 could some day become as ubiquitous on the Internet as authoritative DNS s=
ervers. And just like DNS servers, if you don&#39;t trust the nodes your IS=
P creates or it&#39;s too slow or censors transactions, there&#39;s nothing=
 preventing you from peering with nodes hosted by the Googles or OpenDNSs o=
ut there, or running your own if you&#39;re really paranoid and have a few =
extra bucks for a VPS.<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div=
><div><div>--<div><b>James G. Phillips IV</b>=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://plus.=
google.com/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts" style=3D"font-size:x-small" tar=
get=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"https://ssl.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.pn=
g"></a>=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe" target=3D"_bl=
ank"><img src=3D"http://developer.linkedin.com/sites/default/files/LinkedIn=
_Logo16px.png"></a></div></div><div><font size=3D"1"><i>&quot;Don&#39;t bun=
t. Aim out of the ball park. Aim for the company of immortals.&quot; -- Dav=
id Ogilvy<br></i></font><div><font size=3D"1"><br></font></div></div><div><=
font size=3D"1"><img src=3D"http://findicons.com/files/icons/1156/fugue/16/=
leaf.png">=C2=A0<em style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:=
verdana,geneva,sans-serif;line-height:16px;color:green">This message was cr=
eated with 100% recycled electrons. Please think twice before printing.</em=
></font></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Jim Philli=
ps <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jim@ergophobia.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">jim@ergophobia.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I don&#39;t see how the fact that my 2Mbps connectio=
n causes me to not be a very good relay has any bearing on whether or not t=
he network as a whole would be negatively impacted by a 20MB block. My inab=
ility to rapidly propagate blocks doesn&#39;t really harm the network. It&#=
39;s only if MOST relays are as slow as mine that it creates an issue. I&#3=
9;m one node in thousands (potentially tens or hundreds of thousands if/whe=
n Bitcoin goes mainstream). And I&#39;m an individual. There&#39;s no reaso=
n at all for me to run a full node from my home, except to have my own trus=
ted and validated copy of the blockchain on a computer I control directly. =
I don&#39;t need to act as a relay for that and as long as I can download b=
locks faster than they are created I&#39;m fine. Also, I can easily afford =
a VPS server or several to run full nodes as relays if I am feeling altruis=
tic. It&#39;s actually cheaper for me to lease a VPS than to keep my own ho=
me PC on 24/7, which is why I have 2 of them.<div><br></div><div>And as a b=
usiness, the cost of a server and bandwidth to run a full node is a drop in=
 the bucket. I&#39;m involved in several projects where we have full nodes =
running on leased servers with multiple 1Gbps connections. It&#39;s an almo=
st zero cost. Those nodes could handle 20MB blocks today without thinking a=
bout it, and I&#39;m sure our nodes are just a few amongst thousands just l=
ike them. I&#39;m not at all concerned about the network being too centrali=
zed.</div><div><br></div><div>What concerns me is the fact that we are usin=
g edge cases like my home PC as a lame excuse to debate expanding the capac=
ity of the network.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><span><br clear=
=3D"all"><div><div><div>--<div><b>James G. Phillips IV</b>=C2=A0<a href=3D"=
https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts" style=3D"font-size=
:x-small" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"https://ssl.gstatic.com/images/icon=
s/gplus-16.png"></a>=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe" =
target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"http://developer.linkedin.com/sites/default/f=
iles/LinkedIn_Logo16px.png"></a></div></div><div><font size=3D"1"><i>&quot;=
Don&#39;t bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Aim for the company of immortals.=
&quot; -- David Ogilvy<br></i></font><div><font size=3D"1"><br></font></div=
></div><div><font size=3D"1"><img src=3D"http://findicons.com/files/icons/1=
156/fugue/16/leaf.png">=C2=A0<em style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)=
;font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-serif;line-height:16px;color:green">This m=
essage was created with 100% recycled electrons. Please think twice before =
printing.</em></font></div></div></div>
<br></span><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 10:=
02 PM, Thy Shizzle <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:thyshizzle@outlo=
ok.com" target=3D"_blank">thyshizzle@outlook.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Indeed Jim, yo=
ur internet connection makes a good reason why I don&#39;t like 20mb blocks=
 (right now). It would take you well over a minute to download the block be=
fore you could even relay it on, so
 much slow down in propagation! Yes I do see how decreasing the time to cre=
ate blocks is a bit of a band-aid fix, and to use tge term I&#39;ve seen me=
ntioned here &quot;kicking the can down the road&quot; I agree that this is=
 doing this, however as you say bandwidth is our
 biggest enemy right now and so hopefully by the time we exceed the capacit=
y gained by the decrease in block time, we can then look to bump up block s=
ize because hopefully 20mbps connections will be baseline by then etc.</div=
>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<hr>
<span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bo=
ld">From:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:jim@ergophobia.org" target=3D"_blank">Jim Phillips</a></span><b=
r>
<span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bo=
ld">Sent:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">=E2=80=
=8E26/=E2=80=8E05/=E2=80=8E2015 12:53 PM</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bo=
ld">To:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:thyshizzle@outlook.com" target=3D"_blank">Thy Shizzle</a></span=
><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bo=
ld">Cc:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net" target=3D"_blank">Mike Hearn</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin Dev</a></span><div><div><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bo=
ld">Subject:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Re: [B=
itcoin-development] No Bitcoin For You</span><br>
<br>
</div></div></div><div><div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Frankly I&#39;m good with either way. I&#39;m definitely i=
n favor of faster confirmation times.=C2=A0
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The important thing is that we need to increase the amount of transact=
ions that get into blocks over a given time frame to a point that is in lin=
e with what current technology can handle. We can handle WAY more than we a=
re doing right now. The Bitcoin
 network is not currently Disk, CPU, or RAM bound.. Not even close. The met=
ric we&#39;re closest to being restricted by would be Network bandwidth. I =
live in a developing country. 2Mbps is a typical broadband speed here (alth=
ough 5Mbps and 10Mbps connections are
 affordable). That equates to about 17MB per minute, or 170x more capacity =
than what I need to receive a full copy of the blockchain if I only talk to=
 one peer. If I relay to say 10 peers, I can still handle 17x larger block =
sizes on a slow 2Mbps connection.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, even if we reduce the difficulty so that we&#39;re doing 1MB blo=
cks every minute, that&#39;s still only 10MB every 10 minutes. Eventually w=
e&#39;re going to have to increase that, and we can only reduce the confirm=
ation period so much. I think someone once said
 30 seconds or so is about the shortest period you can practically achieve.=
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br clear=3D"all">
<div>
<div>
<div>--
<div><b>James G. Phillips IV</b>=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://plus.google.com/u/=
0/113107039501292625391/posts" style=3D"font-size:x-small" target=3D"_blank=
"><img src=3D"https://ssl.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png"></a>=C2=A0=
<a href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe" target=3D"_blank"><img src=
=3D"http://developer.linkedin.com/sites/default/files/LinkedIn_Logo16px.png=
"></a></div>
</div>
<div><font size=3D"1"><i>&quot;Don&#39;t bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Ai=
m for the company of immortals.&quot; -- David Ogilvy<br>
</i></font>
<div><font size=3D"1"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
<div><font size=3D"1"><img src=3D"http://findicons.com/files/icons/1156/fug=
ue/16/leaf.png">=C2=A0<em style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-f=
amily:verdana,geneva,sans-serif;line-height:16px;color:green">This message =
was created with 100% recycled electrons.
 Please think twice before printing.</em></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 9:30 PM, Thy Shizzle <span dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:thyshizzle@outlook.com" target=3D"_blank">thyshizzle@=
outlook.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Nah don&#39;t =
make blocks 20mb, then you are slowing down block propagation and blowing o=
ut conf tikes as a result. Just decrease the time it takes to make a 1mb bl=
ock, then you still see the same propagation
 times today and just increase the transaction throughput.</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<hr>
<span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bo=
ld">From:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:jim@ergophobia.org" target=3D"_blank">Jim Phillips</a></span><b=
r>
<span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bo=
ld">Sent:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">=E2=80=
=8E26/=E2=80=8E05/=E2=80=8E2015 12:27 PM</span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bo=
ld">To:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net" target=3D"_blank">Mike Hearn</a></span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bo=
ld">Cc:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_blank">Bi=
tcoin Dev</a></span><br>
<span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;font-weight:bo=
ld">Subject:
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">Re: [B=
itcoin-development] No Bitcoin For You</span><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div><br>
<div>On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Mike Hearn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net" target=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.net</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-=
left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>This meme about datacenter-sized nodes has to die. The Bitcoin wiki is=
 down right now, but I showed years ago that you could keep up with VISA on=
 a single well specced server with today&#39;s technology. Only people livi=
ng in a dreamworld think that Bitcoin
 might actually have to match that level of transaction demand with today&#=
39;s hardware. As noted previously, &quot;too many users&quot; is simply no=
t a problem Bitcoin has .... and may never have!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>... And will certainly NEVER have if we can&#39;t solve the capacity p=
roblem SOON.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In a former life, I was a capacity planner for Bank of America&#39;s m=
id-range server group. We had one hard and fast rule. When you are typicall=
y exceeding 75% of capacity on a given metric, it&#39;s time to expand capa=
city. Period. You don&#39;t do silly things
 like adjusting the business model to disincentivize use. Unless there&#39;=
s some flaw in the system and it&#39;s leaking resources, if usage has incr=
eased to the point where you are at or near the limits of capacity, you exp=
and capacity. It&#39;s as simple as that, and
 I&#39;ve found that same rule fits quite well in a number of systems.=C2=
=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In Bitcoin, we&#39;re not leaking resources. There&#39;s no flaw. The =
system is performing as intended. Usage is increasing because it works so w=
ell, and there is huge potential for future growth as we identify more uses=
 and attract more users. There might be
 a few technical things we can do to reduce consumption, but the metric we&=
#39;re concerned with right now is how many transactions we can fit in a bl=
ock. We&#39;ve broken through the 75% marker and are regularly bumping up a=
gainst the 100% limit.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is time to stop debating this and take action to expand capacity. T=
he only questions that should remain are how much capacity do we add, and h=
ow soon can we do it. Given that most existing computer systems and network=
s can easily handle 20MB blocks
 every 10 minutes, and given that that will increase capacity 20-fold, I ca=
n&#39;t think of a single reason why we can&#39;t go to 20MB as soon as hum=
anly possible. And in a few years, when the average block size is over 15MB=
, we bump it up again to as high as we can
 go then without pushing typical computers or networks beyond their capacit=
y. We can worry about ways to slow down growth without affecting the useful=
ness of Bitcoin as we get closer to the hard technical limits on our capaci=
ty.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And you know what else? If miners need higher fees to accommodate the =
costs of bigger blocks, they can configure their nodes to only mine transac=
tions with higher fees.. Let the miners decide how to charge enough to pay =
for their costs. We don&#39;t need to
 cripple the network just for them.</div>
<div><br clear=3D"all">
<div>
<div>
<div>--
<div><b>James G. Phillips IV</b>=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://plus.google.com/u/=
0/113107039501292625391/posts" style=3D"font-size:x-small" target=3D"_blank=
"><img src=3D"https://ssl.gstatic.com/images/icons/gplus-16.png"></a>=C2=A0=
</div>
</div>
<div><font size=3D"1"><i>&quot;Don&#39;t bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Ai=
m for the company of immortals.&quot; -- David Ogilvy<br>
</i></font>
<div><font size=3D"1"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
<div><font size=3D"1"><img src=3D"http://findicons.com/files/icons/1156/fug=
ue/16/leaf.png">=C2=A0<em style=3D"font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-serif;li=
ne-height:16px;color:green">This message was created with 100% recycled ele=
ctrons. Please think twice before printing.</em></font></div>
<div><font size=3D"1"><em style=3D"font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-serif;li=
ne-height:16px;color:green"><br>
</em></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>
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velopment</a><br>
<br></span></blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--e89a8f235739c721580516f7ee72--