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From: Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 15:50:08 -0500
Message-ID: <CALZpt+Fh+ZvaE+H3776=Zd=wDPMkoP4Qpxin4Qw27Y6_aJ74yw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jeremy <jlrubin@mit.edu>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Cc: Prayank <prayank@tutanota.de>, info@bitcoindefensefund.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin Legal Defense Fund
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> One question I have is how you might describe the differences between
what BLDF can accomplish and what e.g. EFF can accomplish. Having been
represented by the EFF on more than one occasion, they are fantastic. Do
you feel that the Bitcoin-specific focus of BLDF outweighs the more general
(but deeper experience/track record) of an organization like the EFF (or
others, like Berkman Cyberlaw Clinic, etc)? My main opinion is "the more
the merrier", so don't consider it a critique, more a question so that you
have the opportunity to highlight the unique strengths of this approach.

I think one opportunity could be building legal assistance in a diversity
of jurisdictions, beyond the US one.

I join the kudos about the EFF, though you won't find the institutional
equivalent in term of subjects expertise/readiness-to-assist in most of the
other countries.
Especially considering the growing number of developers located outside
US/Europe and a lot of great ecosystem initiatives nurturing that trend.

Cheers,
Antoine

Le jeu. 13 janv. 2022 =C3=A0 14:06, Jeremy via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> a =C3=A9crit :

> A further point -- were it to be a norm if a contributor to something lik=
e
> this be denied their full capacity for "free speech" by social convention=
,
> it would either encourage anonymous funding (less accountable) or would
> disincentivize creating such initiatives in the future.
>
> Both of those outcomes would be potentially bad, so I don't see limiting
> speech on an unrelated topic as a valid action.
>
> However, I think the inverse could have merit -- perhaps funders can
> somehow commit to 'abstracting' themselves from involvement in cases / th=
e
> process of accepting prospective clients. As neither Alex nor Jack are
> lawyers (afaict?), this should already be true to an extent as the legal
> counsel would be bound to attorney client privilege.
>
> Of course we live in a free country and however Jack and Alex determine
> they should spend their own money is their god-given right, as much as it
> is unfortunately the right of anyone to sue a developer for some alleged
> infringement. I'm personally glad that Jack and Alex are using their mone=
y
> to help developers and not harass them -- many thanks for that!
>
> One question I have is how you might describe the differences between wha=
t
> BLDF can accomplish and what e.g. EFF can accomplish. Having been
> represented by the EFF on more than one occasion, they are fantastic. Do
> you feel that the Bitcoin-specific focus of BLDF outweighs the more gener=
al
> (but deeper experience/track record) of an organization like the EFF (or
> others, like Berkman Cyberlaw Clinic, etc)? My main opinion is "the more
> the merrier", so don't consider it a critique, more a question so that yo=
u
> have the opportunity to highlight the unique strengths of this approach.
>
> Best,
>
> Jeremy
> --
> @JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>
> <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 10:50 AM Steve Lee via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> I think the word "The" is important. The title of the email and the name
>> of the fund is Bitcoin Legal Defense Fund. It is "a" legal defense fund;
>> not THE Bitcoin Legal Defense Fund. There is room for other funds and
>> strategies and anyone is welcome to create alternatives.
>>
>> I also don't see why Alex or anyone should be denied the opportunity to
>> comment on future soft forks or anything about bitcoin. Alex should have=
 no
>> more or less right to participate and his comments should be judged on
>> their merit, just like yours and mine.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 9:37 AM Prayank via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jack,
>>>
>>>
>>> > The main purpose of this Fund is to defend developers from lawsuits
>>> regarding their activities in the Bitcoin ecosystem, including finding =
and
>>> retaining defense counsel, developing litigation strategy, and paying l=
egal
>>> bills. This is a free and voluntary option for developers to take advan=
tage
>>> of if they so wish. The Fund will start with a corps of volunteer and
>>> part-time lawyers. The board of the Fund will be responsible for
>>> determining which lawsuits and defendants it will help defend.
>>>
>>> Thanks for helping the developers in legal issues. Appreciate your
>>> efforts and I understand your intentions are to help Bitcoin in every
>>> possible way.
>>>
>>>
>>> Positives that I see in this initiative:
>>>
>>> 1.Developers don't need to worry about rich scammers and can focus on
>>> development.
>>>
>>> 2.Financial help for developers as legal issues can end up in wasting
>>> lot of time and money.
>>>
>>> 3.People who have misused courts to affect bitcoin developers will get
>>> better response that they deserve.
>>>
>>>
>>> I had few suggestions and feel free to ignore them if they do not make
>>> sense:
>>>
>>> 1.Name of this fund could be anything and 'The Bitcoin Legal Defense
>>> Fund' can be confusing or misleading for newbies. There is nothing offi=
cial
>>> in Bitcoin however people believe things written in news articles and s=
ome
>>> of them might consider it as an official bitcoin legal fund.
>>>
>>> 2.It would be better if people involved in such important funds do not
>>> comment/influence soft fork related discussions. Example: Alex Morcos h=
ad
>>> some opinions about activation mechanism during Taproot soft fork IIRC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Prayank
>>>
>>> A3B1 E430 2298 178F
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>&gt; One question I have is how you might d=
escribe the differences between=20
what BLDF can accomplish and what e.g. EFF can accomplish. Having been=20
represented by the EFF on more than one occasion, they are fantastic. Do
 you feel that the Bitcoin-specific focus of BLDF outweighs the more=20
general (but deeper experience/track record) of an organization like the
 EFF (or others, like Berkman Cyberlaw Clinic, etc)? My main opinion is=20
&quot;the more the merrier&quot;, so don&#39;t consider it a critique, more=
 a question
 so that you have the opportunity to highlight the unique strengths of=20
this approach.<br><br></div><div>I think one opportunity could be building =
legal assistance in a diversity of jurisdictions, beyond the US one.<br><br=
></div><div>I join the kudos about the EFF, though you won&#39;t find the i=
nstitutional equivalent in term of subjects expertise/readiness-to-assist i=
n most of the other countries.<br></div><div>Especially considering the gro=
wing number of developers located outside US/Europe and a lot of great ecos=
ystem initiatives nurturing that trend.<br></div><div><br></div></div></div=
>Cheers,<br><div><div>Antoine<br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">Le=C2=A0jeu. 13 janv. 2022 =C3=
=A0=C2=A014:06, Jeremy via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@li=
sts.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; a =
=C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">A further point -- w=
ere it to be a norm if a contributor to something like this be denied their=
 full capacity for &quot;free speech&quot; by social convention, it would e=
ither encourage anonymous funding (less accountable) or would disincentiviz=
e creating such initiatives in the future.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb=
(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Both of those outcom=
es would be potentially bad, so I don&#39;t see limiting speech on an unrel=
ated topic as a valid action.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">However, I think the inverse coul=
d have merit -- perhaps funders can somehow commit=C2=A0to=C2=A0&#39;abstra=
cting&#39; themselves from involvement in cases / the process of accepting =
prospective clients. As neither Alex nor Jack are lawyers (afaict?), this s=
hould already be true to an extent as the legal counsel would be bound to a=
ttorney client privilege.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f=
amily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Of course=C2=A0we live in a free coun=
try and however Jack and Alex determine they should spend their own money i=
s their god-given right, as much as it is unfortunately the right of anyone=
 to sue a developer for some alleged infringement. I&#39;m personally glad =
that Jack and Alex are using their money to help developers and not harass =
them -- many thanks for that!</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">One question I have is how you mi=
ght describe the differences between what BLDF can accomplish and what e.g.=
 EFF can accomplish. Having been represented by the EFF on more than one oc=
casion, they are fantastic. Do you feel that the Bitcoin-specific focus of =
BLDF outweighs the more general (but deeper experience/track record) of an =
organization like the EFF (or others, like Berkman Cyberlaw Clinic, etc)? M=
y main opinion is &quot;the more the merrier&quot;, so don&#39;t consider i=
t a critique, more a question so that you have the opportunity to highlight=
 the unique strengths of this approach.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,=
0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Best,</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Jer=
emy</div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">--<br><a href=3D"https://tw=
itter.com/JeremyRubin" target=3D"_blank">@JeremyRubin</a><a href=3D"https:/=
/twitter.com/JeremyRubin" target=3D"_blank"></a></div></div></div><br></div=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Th=
u, Jan 13, 2022 at 10:50 AM Steve Lee via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists=
.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I think the word &quot;The&quot; is im=
portant. The title of the email and the name of the fund is Bitcoin Legal D=
efense Fund. It is &quot;a&quot; legal defense fund; not THE Bitcoin Legal =
Defense Fund. There is room for other funds and strategies and anyone is we=
lcome to create alternatives.<div><br></div><div>I also don&#39;t see why A=
lex or anyone should be denied the opportunity to comment on future soft fo=
rks or anything about bitcoin. Alex should have no more or less right to pa=
rticipate and his comments should=C2=A0be judged on their merit, just like =
yours and mine.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 9:37 AM Prayank via bitcoin-de=
v &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div>
<div>Hi Jack,<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt;=C2=A0The main purpose of this Fund is to defend =
developers from lawsuits regarding their activities in the Bitcoin ecosyste=
m, including finding and retaining defense counsel, developing litigation s=
trategy, and paying legal bills. This is a free and voluntary option for de=
velopers to take advantage of if they so wish. The Fund will start with a c=
orps of volunteer and part-time lawyers. The board of the Fund will be resp=
onsible for determining which lawsuits and defendants it will help defend.<=
br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks for helping t=
he developers in legal issues. Appreciate your efforts and I understand you=
r intentions are to help Bitcoin in every possible way.<br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Positives=
 that I see in this initiative:<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"auto">1.Developers don&#39;t need to worry about rich scammers and ca=
n focus on development.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"au=
to">2.Financial help for developers as legal issues can end up in wasting l=
ot of time and money.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">3.People who have misused courts to affect bitcoin developers will get be=
tter response that they deserve.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I had few suggestions and feel fre=
e to ignore them if they do not make sense:<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">1.Name of this fund could be anything and &#39;The =
Bitcoin Legal Defense Fund&#39; can be confusing or misleading for newbies.=
 There is nothing official in Bitcoin however people believe things written=
 in news articles and some of them might consider it as an official bitcoin=
 legal fund.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">2.It wo=
uld be better if people involved in such important funds do not comment/inf=
luence soft fork related discussions. Example: Alex Morcos had some opinion=
s about activation mechanism during Taproot soft fork IIRC.<br></div><div d=
ir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div><br></div><div>-- <b=
r></div><div>Prayank<br></div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">A3B1 E430 22=
98 178F<br></div>  </div>

_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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