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From: Andrew Johnson <andrew.johnson83@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 10:28:55 -0600
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Modified Version of Luke-jr's Block Size BIP
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It is when you're talking about making a choice and 6.3x more people prefer
something else. Doing nothing is a choice as well.
Put another way, if 10% supported increasing the 21M coin cap and 63% were
against, would you seriously consider doing it?
On Feb 8, 2017 9:57 AM, "alp alp" <alp.bitcoin@gmail.com> wrote:
> 10% is not a tiny minority.
>
> On Feb 8, 2017 9:51 AM, "Andrew Johnson" <andrew.johnson83@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> You're never going to reach 100% agreement, and stifling the network
>> literally forever to please a tiny minority is daft.
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2017 8:52 AM, "alp alp via bitcoin-dev" <
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>> 10% say literally never. That seems like a significant
>> disenfranchisement and lack of consensus.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 2:25 PM, t. khan via bitcoin-dev <
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, February 06, 2017 6:19:43 PM you wrote:
>>>> > >My BIP draft didn't make progress because the community opposes any
>>>> block
>>>> > >size increase hardfork ever.
>>>> >
>>>> > Luke, how do you know the community opposes that? Specifically, how
>>>> did you
>>>> > come to this conclusion?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.strawpoll.me/12228388/r
>>>
>>>
>>> That poll shows 63% of votes want a larger than 1 MB block by this
>>> summer. How do you go from that to "the community opposes any block
>>> increase ever"? It shows the exact opposite of that.
>>>
>>>
>>>> > >Your version doesn't address the current block size
>>>> > >issues (ie, the blocks being too large).
>>>> >
>>>> > Why do you think blocks are "too large"? Please cite some evidence.
>>>> I've
>>>> > asked this before and you ignored it, but an answer would be helpful
>>>> to the
>>>> > discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Full node count is far below the safe minimum of 85% of economic
>>>> activity.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is this causing a problem now? If so, what?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Typically reasons given for people not using full nodes themselves come
>>>> down
>>>> to the high resource requirements caused by the block size.
>>>
>>>
>>> The reason people stop running nodes is because there's no incentive to
>>> counteract the resource costs. Attempting to solve this by making blocks
>>> *smaller* is like curing a disease by killing the patient. (Incentivizing
>>> full node operation would fix that problem.)
>>>
>>> - t.k.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
>>
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<div dir=3D"auto">It is when you're talking about making a choice and 6=
.3x more people prefer something else. Doing nothing is a choice as well.<d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Put another way, if 10% support=
ed increasing the 21M coin cap and 63% were against, would you seriously co=
nsider doing it?</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote">On Feb 8, 2017 9:57 AM, "alp alp" <<a href=3D"mailt=
o:alp.bitcoin@gmail.com">alp.bitcoin@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"at=
tribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">10% is not a ti=
ny minority.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
>On Feb 8, 2017 9:51 AM, "Andrew Johnson" <<a href=3D"mailto:a=
ndrew.johnson83@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">andrew.johnson83@gmail.com</a>=
> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"auto"><div>You're never going to reach 100% agreement, and stifling=
the network literally forever to please a tiny minority is daft.<br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Feb 8, 2017 8:52 AM,=
"alp alp via bitcoin-dev" <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@list=
s.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfounda<wbr>=
tion.org</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"m_-868=
2514029143378247m_-1566305387424443597quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">10% say literall=
y never.=C2=A0 That seems like a significant disenfranchisement and lack of=
consensus.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div class=3D"m_-8682514029143378247m_-1566305387424443597elided-text">On M=
on, Feb 6, 2017 at 2:25 PM, t. khan via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr"><<=
a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">b=
itcoin-dev@lists.linuxfounda<wbr>tion.org</a>></span> wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"m_-8682514029143378247m_-1566305=
387424443597elided-text"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 2:53 =
PM, Luke Dashjr <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:luke@dashjr.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">luke@dashjr.org</a>></span> wrote:<br></div><div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-s=
tyle:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span><span=
class=3D"m_-8682514029143378247m_-1566305387424443597m_-860367867459032852=
0m_5903971323563278916gmail-">On Monday, February 06, 2017 6:19:43 PM you w=
rote:<br>
> >My BIP draft didn't make progress because the community oppose=
s any block<br>
> >size increase hardfork ever.<br>
><br>
</span></span><span><span class=3D"m_-8682514029143378247m_-156630538742444=
3597m_-8603678674590328520m_5903971323563278916gmail-">> Luke, how do yo=
u know the community opposes that? Specifically, how did you<br>
> come to this conclusion?<br>
<br>
</span></span><a href=3D"http://www.strawpoll.me/12228388/r" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.strawpoll.me/122283<wbr>88/r</a></blockqu=
ote><div><br></div>That poll shows 63% of votes want a larger than 1 MB blo=
ck by this summer. How do you go from that to "the community opposes a=
ny block increase ever"? It shows the exact opposite of that.<div>=C2=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex"><span><span class=3D"m_-8682514029143378247m_-156=
6305387424443597m_-8603678674590328520m_5903971323563278916gmail-">
> >Your version doesn't address the current block size<br>
> >issues (ie, the blocks being too large).<br>
><br>
> Why do you think blocks are "too large"? Please cite some ev=
idence. I've<br>
> asked this before and you ignored it, but an answer would be helpful t=
o the<br>
> discussion.<br>
<br>
</span></span>Full node count is far below the safe minimum of 85% of econo=
mic activity.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Is this causing a problem=
now? If so, what?</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:s=
olid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Typically reasons given for people not using full nodes themselves come dow=
n<br>
to the high resource requirements caused by the block size.</blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>The reason people stop running nodes is because there'=
s no incentive to counteract the resource costs. Attempting to solve this b=
y making blocks *smaller* is like curing a disease by killing the patient. =
(Incentivizing full node operation would fix that problem.)<br></div><div><=
br></div><div>- t.k.</div></div><br></div></div></div>
<br></div><div class=3D"m_-8682514029143378247m_-1566305387424443597quoted-=
text">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundat<wbr>ion.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-d<wbr>ev</a><br>
<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundat<wbr>ion.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-d<wbr>ev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>
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