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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2025 22:56:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Garlo Nicon <garlonicon@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Does anyone still need testnet3?
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> A neat idea might be to make an app to swap between testnet3 and testnet4=
=20
coins.  Or even an AMM.

With 1:1 ratio? Because now, on centralized exchanges, you have 300=20
satoshis per 1 tBTC3, and 25 satoshis per 1 tBTC4. Which means, that 1=20
tBTC3 would be worth 12 tBTC4.

So, if you create some app, which will use significantly different exchange=
=20
rate, then it will be quickly abused.

poniedzia=C5=82ek, 31 marca 2025 o 22:41:55 UTC+2 Melvin Carvalho napisa=C5=
=82(a):

>
>
> p=C3=A1 14. 3. 2025 v 14:01 odes=C3=ADlatel 'Andreas Schildbach' via Bitc=
oin=20
> Development Mailing List <bitco...@googlegroups.com> napsal:
>
>> Hi Sjors,
>>
>> thanks for asking.
>>
>> Bitcoinj has just started to implement testnet4, but it's not finished=
=20
>> yet. And the next version 0.18 will probably not be released within 12=
=20
>> months, maybe longer.
>>
>> By the way, testnet3 works great for us (for testing). I consider block=
=20
>> storms a feature, because it tests our code in rough conditions. We had=
=20
>> planned to support both testnets in the forseeable future.
>>
>> https://github.com/bitcoinj/bitcoinj/
>>
>> Then, there is btc-rpc-explorer, a self-hostable block explorer. It=20
>> doesn't yet support testnet4. I'm not affiliated to it, I'm just a user.
>>
>> https://github.com/janoside/btc-rpc-explorer
>
>
> Main issue with testnet3 is getting coins for developers to use it,=20
> especially with high fees.
>
> A neat idea might be to make an app to swap between testnet3 and testnet4=
=20
> coins.  Or even an AMM.
>
> If there's a decent amount of interest in this, I could give it a go.
> =20
>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andreas
>>
>>
>> On 14/03/2025 09.52, Sjors Provoost wrote:
>> > Dear list,
>> >=20
>> > Testnet 4 was proposed last year in BIP94 [0] and is supported by=20
>> Bitcoin Core since v28.
>> >=20
>> > To make Bitcoin Core easier to maintain we would like to drop support=
=20
>> for Testnet3 in a future release. This will happen no earlier than v30 t=
his=20
>> fall. The upcoming v29 release still supports it, and will throughout it=
s=20
>> maintenance period [1].
>> >=20
>> > The network itself can't be deleted, so anyone willing to maintain nod=
e=20
>> software themselves can keep using testnet3 until the end of time.
>> >=20
>> > One of the motivations for introducing testnet4 was that testnet3=20
>> became increasing impractical to use due to block storms. So perhaps=20
>> everyone already moved on to using testnet4 or a signet.
>> >=20
>> > As an aside, it's possible to create a pure proof-of-work=20
>> permissionless signet without any signatures, by setting the challenge t=
o=20
>> OP_TRUE. [2]
>> >=20
>> > However, if anyone is still using testnet3 and needs more time to move=
=20
>> away from it, please let us know. E.g. as a reply to the list or a comme=
nt=20
>> on the Github issue [3]. This could include libraries, staging=20
>> environments, testnet wallets, etc.
>> >=20
>> > Although the v29 maintenance window will last for a few years, it's=20
>> also important to know if dropping testnet3 would prevent you from=20
>> upgrading to the next major node version. In other words, if migrating a=
way=20
>> from testnet3 would take you longer than all of 2025.
>> >=20
>> > Although "I don't feel like it" isn't a great technical argument, it's=
=20
>> still useful to know what to expect and perhaps others can help.
>> >=20
>> > - Sjors
>> >=20
>> > [0] https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0094.mediawiki
>> > [1] https://bitcoincore.org/en/lifecycle/#maintenance-period
>> > [2]=20
>> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0325.mediawiki#specifica=
tion
>> > [3] https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31975
>> >=20
>>
>> --=20
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group=
s=20
>> "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a=
n=20
>> email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion visit=20
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7c28f8e9-d221-4633-8b71-53b=
4db07fa78%40schildbach.de
>> .
>>
>

--=20
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
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&gt; A neat idea might be to make an app to swap between testnet3 and testn=
et4 coins. =C2=A0Or even an AMM.<br /><br />With 1:1 ratio? Because now, on=
 centralized exchanges, you have 300 satoshis per 1 tBTC3, and 25 satoshis =
per 1 tBTC4. Which means, that 1 tBTC3 would be worth 12 tBTC4.<br /><br />=
So, if you create some app, which will use significantly different exchange=
 rate, then it will be quickly abused.<br /><br /><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_attr">poniedzia=C5=82ek, 31 marca 2025 o=
=C2=A022:41:55 UTC+2 Melvin Carvalho napisa=C5=82(a):<br/></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid=
 rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_at=
tr">p=C3=A1 14. 3. 2025 v=C2=A014:01 odes=C3=ADlatel &#39;Andreas Schildbac=
h&#39; via Bitcoin Development Mailing List &lt;<a href data-email-masked r=
el=3D"nofollow">bitco...@googlegroups.com</a>&gt; napsal:<br></div></div></=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Sjors,<br>
<br>
thanks for asking.<br>
<br>
Bitcoinj has just started to implement testnet4, but it&#39;s not finished =
<br>
yet. And the next version 0.18 will probably not be released within 12 <br>
months, maybe longer.<br>
<br>
By the way, testnet3 works great for us (for testing). I consider block <br=
>
storms a feature, because it tests our code in rough conditions. We had <br=
>
planned to support both testnets in the forseeable future.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoinj/bitcoinj/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollo=
w" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=
=3Dpl&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoinj/bitcoinj/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;=
ust=3D1743573352196000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1Pszt2fWUvatnHKypU50R6">https://gith=
ub.com/bitcoinj/bitcoinj/</a><br>
<br>
Then, there is btc-rpc-explorer, a self-hostable block explorer. It <br>
doesn&#39;t yet support testnet4. I&#39;m not affiliated to it, I&#39;m jus=
t a user.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://github.com/janoside/btc-rpc-explorer" rel=3D"noreferrer =
nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/=
url?hl=3Dpl&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/janoside/btc-rpc-explorer&amp;source=
=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1743573352196000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0xymHRouQtZm4QJTXdETyK"=
>https://github.com/janoside/btc-rpc-explorer</a></blockquote><div><br></di=
v></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>Main issue w=
ith testnet3 is getting coins for developers to use it, especially with hig=
h fees.</div><div><br></div><div>A neat idea might be to make an app to swa=
p between testnet3 and testnet4 coins.=C2=A0 Or even an AMM.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>If there&#39;s a decent amount of interest in this, I could give=
 it a go.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Andreas<br>
<br>
<br>
On 14/03/2025 09.52, Sjors Provoost wrote:<br>
&gt; Dear list,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Testnet 4 was proposed last year in BIP94 [0] and is supported by Bitc=
oin Core since v28.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; To make Bitcoin Core easier to maintain we would like to drop support =
for Testnet3 in a future release. This will happen no earlier than v30 this=
 fall. The upcoming v29 release still supports it, and will throughout its =
maintenance period [1].<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The network itself can&#39;t be deleted, so anyone willing to maintain=
 node software themselves can keep using testnet3 until the end of time.<br=
>
&gt; <br>
&gt; One of the motivations for introducing testnet4 was that testnet3 beca=
me increasing impractical to use due to block storms. So perhaps everyone a=
lready moved on to using testnet4 or a signet.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; As an aside, it&#39;s possible to create a pure proof-of-work permissi=
onless signet without any signatures, by setting the challenge to OP_TRUE. =
[2]<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; However, if anyone is still using testnet3 and needs more time to move=
 away from it, please let us know. E.g. as a reply to the list or a comment=
 on the Github issue [3]. This could include libraries, staging environment=
s, testnet wallets, etc.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Although the v29 maintenance window will last for a few years, it&#39;=
s also important to know if dropping testnet3 would prevent you from upgrad=
ing to the next major node version. In other words, if migrating away from =
testnet3 would take you longer than all of 2025.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Although &quot;I don&#39;t feel like it&quot; isn&#39;t a great techni=
cal argument, it&#39;s still useful to know what to expect and perhaps othe=
rs can help.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; - Sjors<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [0] <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0094.me=
diawiki" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=
=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Dpl&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/b=
ips/blob/master/bip-0094.mediawiki&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D17435733521=
96000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0f8V8T2MHGVl7RteTfLqEJ">https://github.com/bitcoin/bi=
ps/blob/master/bip-0094.mediawiki</a><br>
&gt; [1] <a href=3D"https://bitcoincore.org/en/lifecycle/#maintenance-perio=
d" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"ht=
tps://www.google.com/url?hl=3Dpl&amp;q=3Dhttps://bitcoincore.org/en/lifecyc=
le/%23maintenance-period&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1743573352196000&amp;=
usg=3DAOvVaw0LbUp0DideKBbdIVqldNwQ">https://bitcoincore.org/en/lifecycle/#m=
aintenance-period</a><br>
&gt; [2] <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0325.me=
diawiki#specification" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-s=
aferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Dpl&amp;q=3Dhttps://github=
.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0325.mediawiki%23specification&amp;source=
=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1743573352196000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3O9lol259JQHkbS1M7n5Yj"=
>https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0325.mediawiki#specificati=
on</a><br>
&gt; [3] <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31975" rel=3D=
"noreferrer nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www=
.google.com/url?hl=3Dpl&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3=
1975&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1743573352196000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3-SARRp4=
Yz0e4oz1tKqRuu">https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31975</a><br>
&gt; <br>
<br></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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gle.com/url?hl=3Dpl&amp;q=3Dhttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7c=
28f8e9-d221-4633-8b71-53b4db07fa78%2540schildbach.de&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp=
;ust=3D1743573352196000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw11dXUyiDb9Jj6Av-9HQdP-">https://gro=
ups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7c28f8e9-d221-4633-8b71-53b4db07fa78%40sc=
hildbach.de</a>.<br>
</blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

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