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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Simplicity proposal - Jets?
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To reiterate, none of the current work focuses on Bitcoin integration, and m=
any architectures are possible.

However the Jets would have to be specified and agreed to upfront for costin=
g reasons, and so they would be known to all validators. There would be no r=
eason to include anything more then the identifying hash in any contract usi=
ng the jet.

> On Nov 3, 2017, at 5:59 AM, Hampus Sj=C3=B6berg via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-d=
ev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>=20
> Thank you for your answer, Russel.
>=20
> When a code path takes advantage of a jet, does the Simplicity code still n=
eed to be publicly available/visible in the blockchain? I imagine that for b=
ig algorithms (say for example EDCA verification/SHA256 hashing etc), it wou=
ld take up a lot of space in the blockchain.
> Is there any way to mitigate this?
>=20
> I guess in a softfork for a jet, the Simplicity code for a jet could be de=
fined as "consensus", instead of needed to be provided within every script o=
utput.
> When the Simplicity interpretor encounters an expression that has a jet, i=
t would run the C/Assembly code instead of interpreting the Simplicity code.=
 By formal verification we would be sure they match.
>=20
> Greetings
> Hampus
>=20
> 2017-11-03 2:10 GMT+01:00 Russell O'Connor via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@li=
sts.linuxfoundation.org>:
>> Hi Jose,
>>=20
>> Jets are briefly discussed in section 3.4 of https://blockstream.com/simp=
licity.pdf
>>=20
>> The idea is that we can recognize some set of popular Simplicity expressi=
ons, and when the Simplicity interpreter encounters one of these expressions=
 it can skip over the Simplicity interpreter and instead directly evaluate t=
he function using specialized C or assembly code.
>>=20
>> For example, when the Simplicity interpreter encounters the Simplicity ex=
pression for ECDSA verification, it might directly call into libsecp rather t=
han continuing the ECDSA verification using interpreted Simplicity.
>>=20
>> HTH.
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Nov 2, 2017 18:35, "JOSE FEMENIAS CA=C3=91UELO via bitcoin-dev" <bitco=
in-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>=20
>> I am trying to follow this Simplicity proposal and I am seeing all over r=
eferences to =E2=80=98jets=E2=80=99, but I haven=E2=80=99t been able to find=
 any good reference to it.
>> Can anyone give me a brief explanation and or a link pointing to this fea=
ture?
>> Thanks
>>=20
>>> On 31 Oct 2017, at 22:01, bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org w=
rote:
>>>=20
>>> The plan is that discounted jets will be explicitly labeled as jets in t=
he
>>> commitment.  If you can provide a Merkle path from the root to a node th=
at
>>> is an explicit jet, but that jet isn't among the finite number of known
>>> discounted jets,
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">To reiterate, none of the current work focu=
ses on Bitcoin integration, and many architectures are possible.<br><br><div=
>However the Jets would have to be specified and agreed to upfront for costi=
ng reasons, and so they would be known to all validators. There would be no r=
eason to include anything more then the identifying hash in any contract usi=
ng the jet.</div><div><br>On Nov 3, 2017, at 5:59 AM, Hampus Sj=C3=B6berg vi=
a bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">b=
itcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div>Thank you for your a=
nswer, Russel.</div><div><br></div>When a code path takes advantage of a jet=
,  does the Simplicity code still need to be publicly available/visible in t=
he blockchain? I imagine that for big algorithms (say for example EDCA verif=
ication/SHA256 hashing etc), it would take up a lot of space in the blockcha=
in.<br></div>Is there any way to mitigate this?</div><div><br></div><div>I g=
uess in a softfork for a jet, the Simplicity code for a jet could be defined=
 as "consensus", instead of needed to be provided within every script output=
.</div><div>When the Simplicity interpretor encounters an expression that ha=
s a jet, it would run the C/Assembly code instead of interpreting the Simpli=
city code. By formal verification we would be sure they match.<br></div><div=
><br></div>Greetings<br></div>Hampus<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2017-11-03 2:10 GMT+01:00 Russell O'Connor via b=
itcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfo=
undation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt=
;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Hi Jose,<d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Jets are briefly discussed in se=
ction 3.4 of <a href=3D"https://blockstream.com/simplicity.pdf" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://blockstream.com/<wbr>simplicity.pdf</a></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The idea is that we can recognize some set of p=
opular Simplicity expressions, and when the Simplicity interpreter encounter=
s one of these expressions it can skip over the Simplicity interpreter and i=
nstead directly evaluate the function using specialized C or assembly code.<=
/div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">For example, when the Sim=
plicity interpreter encounters the Simplicity expression for ECDSA verificat=
ion, it might directly call into libsecp rather than continuing the ECDSA ve=
rification using interpreted Simplicity.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto">HTH.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div><div class=3D"h5">On Nov 2, 2017 18:35, "JOSE FEMENIAS CA=C3=
=91UELO via bitcoin-dev" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfounda=
tion.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"></div></div><blockquote class=3D"m_3183610=
566517422745quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h5"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Hi=
,<div><br></div><div>I am trying to follow this Simplicity proposal and I am=
 seeing all over references to =E2=80=98jets=E2=80=99, but I haven=E2=80=99t=
 been able to find any good reference to it.</div><div>Can anyone give me a b=
rief explanation and or a link pointing to this feature?</div><div>Thanks</d=
iv><div><br></div><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On 31 Oct 2017, a=
t 22:01, <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linu<wbr>xfoundation.org</a> wrote=
:</div><br class=3D"m_3183610566517422745m_-8057571337992392675Apple-interch=
ange-newline"><div><span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-=
style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:norm=
al;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;w=
ord-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">The plan is that discou=
nted jets will be explicitly labeled as jets in the</span><br style=3D"font-=
family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;f=
ont-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;tex=
t-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;fon=
t-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-=
transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline=
!important">commitment.&nbsp; If you can provide a Merkle path from the root=
 to a node that</span><br style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font=
-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:nor=
mal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;=
word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-s=
tyle:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:norma=
l;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wo=
rd-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">is an explicit jet, but t=
hat jet isn't among the finite number of known</span><br style=3D"font-famil=
y:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-w=
eight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-tra=
nsform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:=
Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-wei=
ght:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-trans=
form:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!impo=
rtant">discounted jets,</span></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div><br><=
/div></div>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">b=
itcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundat<wbr>ion.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org/m=
ailman/listinfo/bitcoin-d<wbr>ev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.<=
wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" r=
el=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org/m=
ailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
___________________________</span><br><span>bitcoin-dev mailing list</span><=
br><span><a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-de=
v@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"https://lists.lin=
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.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></=
html>=

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