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From: Salvatore Ingala <salvatore.ingala@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 14:02:50 +0100
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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Who uses or wants to use PSBTv2 (BIP370)
To: Kalle Rosenbaum <kalle@rosenbaum.se>
Cc: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl>, bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
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Yes, but it is to be noted that all the Psbt implementations in the various
Ledger client libraries are bare bones, containing just what's needed for
the communication protocol.
They are not general purpose and not otherwise complete (nor planned to
become so).

Best,
Salvatore Ingala

On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 at 11:38, Kalle Rosenbaum <kalle@rosenbaum.se> wrote:

> I might have linked to a slightly outdated version of ledger's psbtv2. I
> haven't been involved lately. The correct one could be
> https://github.com/LedgerHQ/app-bitcoin-new/blob/53dfd1727ab55182f9e365747b26b862e48b7b8b/bitcoin_client_js/src/lib/psbtv2.ts.
> Is that right, Salvatore?
>
> /Kalle
>
> On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 at 11:03, Salvatore Ingala <salvatore.ingala@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Sjors,
>>
>> The Ledger Bitcoin app uses PSBTv2 since version 2.0.0 in 2021 [0], quite
>> possibly the first adopter - although for somewhat unusual reasons.
>>
>> Working with embedded devices with just a few kb of RAM, even sending the
>> entire PSBT is not generally feasible.
>> Therefore, the client instead sends a 'merkleized' commitment to the
>> entire PSBT at the beginning of the signing process.
>> This enables the device to obtain random access to the PSBT by querying
>> the client (who provides the data - and the Merkle proof - on demand).
>>
>> In PsbtV0, the unsigned transaction is a binary blob, which was a huge
>> headache because the device had to parse it while streaming it (and
>> therefore, no RAM access to the individual transaction fields is possible).
>> PsbtV2 fixed this by having the transaction already 'parsed' into
>> individual fields.
>>
>> The companion client libraries of the Ledger Bitcoin app support both
>> versions, and PsbtV0 is converted to PsbtV2 on the fly.
>> Broader support would certainly be useful.
>>
>> Best,
>> Salvatore Ingala
>>
>> [0] https://www.ledger.com/blog/bitcoin-2
>>
>> --
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAMhCMoGONKFok_SuZkic%2BT%3DyoWZs5eeVxtwJL6Ei%3DyysvA8rrg%40mail.gmail.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAMhCMoGONKFok_SuZkic%2BT%3DyoWZs5eeVxtwJL6Ei%3DyysvA8rrg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Yes, but it is to be noted that all the Psbt implementatio=
ns in the various Ledger client libraries are bare bones, containing just w=
hat&#39;s needed for the communication protocol.<div>They are not general p=
urpose and not otherwise complete (nor planned to become so).<div><br></div=
><div>Best,</div><div>Salvatore Ingala</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, 17 Jan 2025 at 11=
:38, Kalle Rosenbaum &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kalle@rosenbaum.se" target=3D"_b=
lank">kalle@rosenbaum.se</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I might have linked to a slightly =
outdated version of ledger&#39;s psbtv2. I haven&#39;t been involved lately=
. The correct one could be=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://github.com/LedgerHQ/app-=
bitcoin-new/blob/53dfd1727ab55182f9e365747b26b862e48b7b8b/bitcoin_client_js=
/src/lib/psbtv2.ts" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/LedgerHQ/app-bitco=
in-new/blob/53dfd1727ab55182f9e365747b26b862e48b7b8b/bitcoin_client_js/src/=
lib/psbtv2.ts</a>. Is that right, Salvatore?<br><br>/Kalle</div><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, 17 Jan 20=
25 at 11:03, Salvatore Ingala &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:salvatore.ingala@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">salvatore.ingala@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Hi=C2=A0Sjors,<div><br></div><div>The Ledger Bitcoin app uses PSBT=
v2 since version 2.0.0 in 2021 [0], quite possibly the first adopter - alth=
ough for somewhat unusual reasons.</div><div><br></div><div>Working with em=
bedded devices with just a few kb of RAM, even sending the entire PSBT is n=
ot generally feasible.<br>Therefore, the client instead sends a &#39;merkle=
ized&#39; commitment to the entire PSBT at the beginning of the signing pro=
cess.</div><div>This enables the device to obtain random access to the PSBT=
 by querying the client (who provides the data - and the Merkle proof - on =
demand).<br><br>In PsbtV0, the unsigned transaction is a binary blob, which=
 was a huge headache because the device had to=C2=A0parse it while streamin=
g it (and therefore, no RAM access to the individual transaction fields is =
possible).<br>PsbtV2 fixed this by having the transaction already &#39;pars=
ed&#39; into individual fields.</div></div><div><br></div><div>The companio=
n client libraries of the Ledger Bitcoin app support both versions, and Psb=
tV0 is converted to PsbtV2 on the fly.</div><div>Broader support would cert=
ainly be useful.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Salvatore Ingala<=
/div><div><br></div><div>[0]=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ledger.com/blog/bi=
tcoin-2" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ledger.com/blog/bitcoin-2</a></div><=
/div>

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