1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
|
Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <tomh@thinlink.com>) id 1Wd5g6-0002Pj-TT
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Wed, 23 Apr 2014 22:30:06 +0000
X-ACL-Warn:
Received: from mail-pb0-f42.google.com ([209.85.160.42])
by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
(Exim 4.76) id 1Wd5g6-0000ql-1P
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Wed, 23 Apr 2014 22:30:06 +0000
Received: by mail-pb0-f42.google.com with SMTP id un15so1231925pbc.29
for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
Wed, 23 Apr 2014 15:30:00 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20130820;
h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:cc
:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type
:content-transfer-encoding;
bh=z5nLq/kobM7jCSU4fu0J/QIhieT303r9asggV62A+xo=;
b=Wcm77BGn4bRVULk7Fny1mVR2E4a1lwlfYxhdlgh8SdjljwpoqjohLBKM/DNTgHCl0A
okhd1ruUbePu386LeXmDOg5hrYqdDRPmfJUV7MwCYNJL+RGjTTlJXmBcGiaBnLzsTUsv
+5P77rniIBUnkZiXfll6/ai8Zrf2U67SBv8kjrgZ0t4U3CBUJ6YozqcNl5y3bg0t9oa4
BYM2U/fS62xAP7vmgYpPG76rofd46cx5hT8Sz9Dlxqfake23pz4j1A28GxfUfb9HOl01
0K7MextWpCm4cyoHt/T/0TTNYDNtoVItap1aHn3Lv6GxAe1xYZe+UJ9myGDLQesg56gN
RVNg==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmMBs27U2ByHeJXkjrtBSK/6HiJ52GnZPUDs105ECLmmIWw++v+NXYdByfl+Zw2iFPWAFpc
X-Received: by 10.67.8.102 with SMTP id dj6mr46755608pad.10.1398292199967;
Wed, 23 Apr 2014 15:29:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.100.1.239] ([204.58.254.99])
by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id de5sm4742091pbc.66.2014.04.23.15.29.58
for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
(version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
Wed, 23 Apr 2014 15:29:59 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <53583ECD.5000105@thinlink.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 15:29:33 -0700
From: Tom Harding <tomh@thinlink.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64;
rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
CC: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
References: <20140422213128.GB2578@savin> <53574581.3040004@thinlink.com>
<1533579.cuHiT41BQ7@crushinator>
In-Reply-To: <1533579.cuHiT41BQ7@crushinator>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
0.6 RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB RBL: SORBS: sender is an abusable web server
[204.58.254.99 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net]
1.2 MISSING_HEADERS Missing To: header
X-Headers-End: 1Wd5g6-0000ql-1P
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Double-spending unconfirmed transactions
is a lot easier than most people realise
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 22:30:07 -0000
On 4/22/2014 9:03 PM, Matt Whitlock wrote:
> On Tuesday, 22 April 2014, at 8:45 pm, Tom Harding wrote:
>> A network where transaction submitters consider their (final)
>> transactions to be unchangeable the moment they are transmitted, and
>> where the network's goal is to confirm only transactions all of whose
>> UTXO's have not yet been seen in a final transaction's input, has a
>> chance to be such a network.
> Respectfully, this is not the goal of miners. The goal of miners is to maximize profits. Always will be. If they can do that by enabling replace-by-fee (and they can), then they will. Altruism does not factor into business.
The rational miner works hard digging hashes out of the ether, and wants
the reward to be great. How much more valuable would his reward be if
he were paid in something that is spendable like cash on a 1-minute
network for coffee and other innumerable real-time transactions, versus
something that is only spendable on a 15-minute network?
There is a prisoner's dilemma, to be sure, but do the fees from helping
people successfully double-spend their coffee supplier really outweigh
the increased value to the entire network - including himself - of
ensuring that digital cash actually works like cash?
|
