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Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2025 10:54:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: /dev /fd0 <alicexbtong@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Consensus Cleanup BIP draft
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Hi Chris,
I agree with separation.
Also I need more details as some of them could be CIA proxy and introduce=
=20
another bug. Any change in consensus code need more discussion.
/dev/fd0
floppy disk guy=20
On Thursday, March 27, 2025 at 5:49:30=E2=80=AFPM UTC+5:30 Chris Stewart wr=
ote:
> Hi Antoine,=20
>
> First off, concept ACK. My concerns are procedural rather than objections=
=20
> to the individual security fixes themselves.
>
> The "Great Consensus Cleanup" is a fantastic brand for communicating thes=
e=20
> protocol changes to non-technical users. However, since this is a technic=
al=20
> forum and we are producing BIPs intended for technical audiences, I belie=
ve=20
> we should document these changes in separate BIPs.
>
> The proposed security fixes are largely unrelated from a technical=20
> standpoint:
>
> 1.=20
> =20
> Timewarp attack mitigation
> 2.=20
> =20
> Worst-case block validation constraints
> 3.=20
> =20
> Disallowing 64-byte transactions
> 4.=20
> =20
> Avoiding duplicate transactions
> =20
> We should absolutely retain the "Great Consensus Cleanup" branding while=
=20
> independently documenting each security enhancement.
>
> A common concern I=E2=80=99ve heard about splitting this BIP is that depl=
oying=20
> soft forks is difficult, so all changes should be bundled together. While=
=20
> soft fork deployment is indeed challenging, we've successfully activated=
=20
> multiple BIPs within a single soft fork in the past=E2=80=94e.g., BIP141 =
and BIP143=20
> in Segwit, as well as BIP341, BIP342, and BIP343 in Taproot. If the=20
> community reaches consensus, we can still deploy all these changes=20
> together, even if they are documented separately.
>
> This approach also provides flexibility: if one of the proposed changes=
=20
> turns out to be controversial, we could remove it without holding up the=
=20
> rest of the improvements. Additionally, once these fixes are deployed,=20
> there will likely be significant research and documentation to incorporat=
e,=20
> and maintaining independent BIPs will make it easier to manage that growt=
h.
>
> I do see merit in implementing all the security fixes in a single PR for=
=20
> Bitcoin Core. More active contributors to the project may have stronger=
=20
> opinions on the best approach there.
>
> -Chris=20
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 1:23=E2=80=AFPM 'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Dev=
elopment=20
> Mailing List <bitco...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> About two months ago i shared an update on this list about my (and=20
>> others', really) work on the
>> Consensus Cleanup [0]. I am now ready to share a BIP draft for a=20
>> Consensus Cleanup soft fork.
>>
>> The BIP draft can be found here:=20
>> https://github.com/darosior/bips/blob/consensus_cleanup/bip-cc.md
>>
>> It includes the following fixes:
>> - a restriction on the timestamp of the first and last blocks of a=20
>> difficulty adjustment period to
>> address the Timewarp and Murch-Zawy attacks;
>> - a limit on the number of legacy signature operations that may be=20
>> executed in validating a single
>> transaction to address long block validation times;
>> - making 64 bytes transactions invalid to address weaknesses in the bloc=
k=20
>> Merkle tree construction;
>> - mandating coinbase transactions be timelocked to their block height to=
=20
>> prevent future transaction
>> duplication without resorting to BIP30 validation.
>>
>> This BIP draws on the 2019 Great Consensus Cleanup proposal from Matt=20
>> Corallo [1]. A number of
>> people contributed ideas, testing, data or useful discussions. This=20
>> includes Ava Chow, Matt Corallo,
>> Mark Erhardt, Brian Groll, David A. Harding, Sjors Provoost, Anthony=20
>> Towns, Greg Sanders, Chris
>> Stewart, Eric Voskuil, @0xb10c and others.
>>
>> Antoine Poinsot
>>
>> [0]=20
>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/jiyMlvTX8BnG71f75SqChQZxyhZDQ65kldcugeI=
DJVJsvK4hadCO3GT46xFc7_cUlWdmOCG0B_WIz0HAO5ZugqYTuX5qxnNLRBn3MopuATI=3D@pro=
tonmail.com
>> [1]=20
>> https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bips/blob/7f9670b643b7c943a0cc6d2197d3eab=
e661050c2/bip-XXXX.mediawiki
>>
>> --=20
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group=
s=20
>> "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a=
n=20
>> email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion visit=20
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/uDAujRxk4oWnEGYX9lBD3e0V7a4=
V4Pd-c4-2QVybSZNcfJj5a6IbO6fCM_xEQEpBvQeOT8eIi1r91iKFIveeLIxfNMzDys77HUcbl7=
Zne4g%3D%40protonmail.com
>> .
>>
>
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
e32b5d5c-1326-451c-b2eb-d7a92c50d9ban%40googlegroups.com.
------=_Part_72997_861809440.1743098085290
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Chris,<br /><br />I agree with separation.<br /><br />Also I need more d=
etails as some of them could be CIA proxy and introduce another bug. Any ch=
ange in consensus code need more discussion.<br /><br />/dev/fd0<br />flopp=
y disk guy=C2=A0<br /><br /><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Thursday, March 27, 2025 at 5:49:30=E2=80=AFPM UTC+5:=
30 Chris Stewart wrote:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding=
-left: 1ex;"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">Hi Antoine,
<p>First off, concept ACK. My concerns are procedural rather than objection=
s to the individual security fixes themselves.</p>
<p>The "Great Consensus Cleanup" is a fantastic brand for communi=
cating these protocol changes to non-technical users. However, since this i=
s a technical forum and we are producing BIPs intended for technical audien=
ces, I believe we should document these changes in separate BIPs.</p>
<p>The proposed security fixes are largely unrelated from a technical stand=
point:</p>
<ol><li>
<p>Timewarp attack mitigation</p>
</li><li>
<p>Worst-case block validation constraints</p>
</li><li>
<p>Disallowing 64-byte transactions</p>
</li><li>
<p>Avoiding duplicate transactions</p>
</li></ol>
<p>We should absolutely retain the "Great Consensus Cleanup" bran=
ding while independently documenting each security enhancement.</p>
<p>A common concern I=E2=80=99ve heard about splitting this BIP is that dep=
loying soft forks is difficult, so all changes should be bundled together. =
While soft fork deployment is indeed challenging, we've successfully ac=
tivated multiple BIPs within a single soft fork in the past=E2=80=94e.g., B=
IP141 and BIP143 in Segwit, as well as BIP341, BIP342, and BIP343 in Taproo=
t. If the community reaches consensus, we can still deploy all these change=
s together, even if they are documented separately.</p>
<p>This approach also provides flexibility: if one of the proposed changes =
turns out to be controversial, we could remove it without holding up the re=
st of the improvements. Additionally, once these fixes are deployed, there =
will likely be significant research and documentation to incorporate, and m=
aintaining independent BIPs will make it easier to manage that growth.</p>
<p>I do see merit in implementing all the security fixes in a single PR for=
Bitcoin Core. More active contributors to the project may have stronger op=
inions on the best approach there.<br><br></p><p>-Chris <br></p><hr><div><b=
r></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"></div></div></div></div></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_=
attr">On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 1:23=E2=80=AFPM 'Antoine Poinsot' via=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List <<a href data-email-masked rel=3D"nofo=
llow">bitco...@googlegroups.com</a>> wrote:<br></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;=
border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">Hi everyone,<br>
<br>
About two months ago i shared an update on this list about my (and others&#=
39;, really) work on the<br>
Consensus Cleanup [0]. I am now ready to share a BIP draft for a Consensus =
Cleanup soft fork.<br>
<br>
The BIP draft can be found here: <a href=3D"https://github.com/darosior/bip=
s/blob/consensus_cleanup/bip-cc.md" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow" target=3D"_=
blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&q=3Dh=
ttps://github.com/darosior/bips/blob/consensus_cleanup/bip-cc.md&source=
=3Dgmail&ust=3D1743184287155000&usg=3DAOvVaw1sIL3GlIb9mWR6WhdGvFCO"=
>https://github.com/darosior/bips/blob/consensus_cleanup/bip-cc.md</a><br>
<br>
It includes the following fixes:<br>
- a restriction on the timestamp of the first and last blocks of a difficul=
ty adjustment period to<br>
=C2=A0 address the Timewarp and Murch-Zawy attacks;<br>
- a limit on the number of legacy signature operations that may be executed=
in validating a single<br>
=C2=A0 transaction to address long block validation times;<br>
- making 64 bytes transactions invalid to address weaknesses in the block M=
erkle tree construction;<br>
- mandating coinbase transactions be timelocked to their block height to pr=
event future transaction<br>
=C2=A0 duplication without resorting to BIP30 validation.<br>
<br>
This BIP draws on the 2019 Great Consensus Cleanup proposal from Matt Coral=
lo [1]. A number of<br>
people contributed ideas, testing, data or useful discussions. This include=
s Ava Chow, Matt Corallo,<br>
Mark Erhardt, Brian Groll, David A. Harding, Sjors Provoost, Anthony Towns,=
Greg Sanders, Chris<br>
Stewart, Eric Voskuil, @0xb10c and others.<br>
<br>
Antoine Poinsot<br>
<br>
[0] <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/jiyMlvTX8BnG71f75SqChQZxyhZ=
DQ65kldcugeIDJVJsvK4hadCO3GT46xFc7_cUlWdmOCG0B_WIz0HAO5ZugqYTuX5qxnNLRBn3Mo=
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