1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
|
Delivery-date: Tue, 04 Feb 2025 13:42:19 -0800
Received: from mail-yb1-f185.google.com ([209.85.219.185])
by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
(Exim 4.94.2)
(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBDRYHVHZTUGRBMUTRK6QMGQEWJNK6PI@googlegroups.com>)
id 1tfQgU-0004wh-UM
for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Tue, 04 Feb 2025 13:42:19 -0800
Received: by mail-yb1-f185.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e5b23bf2c03sf566231276.1
for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Tue, 04 Feb 2025 13:42:18 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1738705333; cv=pass;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=K+b1tpF3p9SV491cR4gIKL0pJ1vBN4c/CjqoBgosybas8poLx/eKJc7lO/Gq53itts
Tmn9WYAo46/W7eVxNTXqp07l8Od69z8FS5sVlKsrbT02ctqxBH9UBUod5bCxRx62CkaV
VD2ElLDu1UUcPOjCpLmDxeZsbMK0useE56PioeYlF73UUOOVCvHIrl9ZUVBh4Ro/KYPL
ZALaODcLIxXSArB+QLoCkf6WZM8eTog5t+GTXXFmJLl+QBI+Q6zIsDUipkEiJTm9evQP
3Ggk1eaZmYz2yUMY6qw8pNCAonBxbQN2obxpiNfwQNcnIqGAcW3bMcVpUqeAmk6I03Uf
maYA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:in-reply-to:content-disposition
:mime-version:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date
:feedback-id:sender:dkim-signature;
bh=oFL7TaLz6EF6huVuf2VHe6M64frwaE3QYxSK+dCHv7U=;
fh=2np0UdDlk79nVh4Of0HyzfkeHlo56/8D8LEWo3yTyXk=;
b=WgteVGMFNxonRKQEQC+A3d5oBoiCUOuoqPYdhUWkSL/JbbJvPwqJqP7XVijX0wz5g3
MYf4pXL/suiEndMTYhsEquYjn2tSDL5hjO45q9Bw8uPKwP8fFR181l50eiQpuicWZ1gP
R/C8tbhthtstsD80t2ci13F5ZAHwgWmnnuWXAWQHZd2IaG1wO3eRQcdDAIKR8PANu50+
PxTCLDcwS/KBMTLZtliCNXvqDzlQ1dUT9TkxCGHT5B9scaqYb4n4fmlK/Oolu4pmmPSW
yspKbxd3Lf9btVj1Jm5uPFnZ/ffwDpzwkch4pwbqnHITWG+xUi5eGAwDkdH/4xPlahzB
O8FQ==;
darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=GJyGcGsN;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.156 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1738705333; x=1739310133; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version
:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:feedback-id:sender
:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=oFL7TaLz6EF6huVuf2VHe6M64frwaE3QYxSK+dCHv7U=;
b=BfQA72A2+wpkaXd3JhM8akgUk3+58yMkMGNxr74dMCEqJey11qCAPE/Iv56wgEHOEd
dzRuR2wsF278V204GaUrhxhnEeY8MiCsZI/QFG1RH7P19wnPEn9XEtaMV1/e7KfU4z+v
L/EbFe/G1AU4YWB43qPhrF2YcqiOJaF6NGCi3dzxqahXmPycCE4g0UhvfIAbGBtKk2dg
1qUy1j/pdgTQVpf35vnXodMvw3sEC0lWheGUgJFz3QZ6JQCAbmPxvRgiItYWcQgdMyQr
JIU0FTsyYdUfcV2lDr3/GJbNKQ6WKYnj6ZcExDsA4DvxySnAoBKew7t9NIG//N47hmGz
q/Sw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1738705333; x=1739310133;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version
:references:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:feedback-id
:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date
:message-id:reply-to;
bh=oFL7TaLz6EF6huVuf2VHe6M64frwaE3QYxSK+dCHv7U=;
b=E9CjOMNmv73NaouR8yKcOj7NNO4H4HUIyombCGnsuOpBdTIC+OKYE5rXN0G82Ebi/E
gLfcLiLP9YVGio8SULsJrKAoyW0xUc6Hcwau+rrz6F/oS7cLBlUYrXExUU+vT7CII1eX
gx30STISztcAZfBXB1vGNuQCjinqbE4DIt6K742fMJ5xvp7e08xqRP4FFjj6OD/KBulS
Bc4YklVVwN24T1mkfkGOAgIsZWh/KsHQ7XsRI+IEK4JFshwqxuIrg82JDDcTjH2NYP8S
Ei+j4qfPRp/kD1lDgLNPbOVLhELcwtJbc/d1NAOkJdAB/HQQWvocjAA+eNDSiYAtaVUe
uysw==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWVppzAFet43HgAb7xZRSaFSsgLBGWJUsR9F7/KL0iGFPO6OaQfXshe1lX+jENPEpwfIB5nHCFiYkIS@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyZbwuKe08fw76XDVDhIT6LnwW9DCl+D0fcHnklb6f8cpRdVq9S
vm19Nn485FgbSs5aYo8yoK5k6Gjbjal807z1xFAbrcgACkMxVvC0
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEq4tlu6ECXwFQLaZvRQorPaH/rVta+ABcaWhDG9tTTxXR0jD+DrW4JweJZBuMhTfLUxk7Isw==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:dc9:b0:e39:8e5f:adab with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e5b25bf4d8amr491986276.39.1738705333095;
Tue, 04 Feb 2025 13:42:13 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
Received: by 2002:a25:8691:0:b0:e58:aa7b:94c2 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e5b13e64a05ls124530276.0.-pod-prod-01-us;
Tue, 04 Feb 2025 13:42:10 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:6e0a:b0:6f9:72a9:f7cd with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6f989dff982mr4981527b3.9.1738705330051;
Tue, 04 Feb 2025 13:42:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 2002:a05:690c:23c4:b0:6f6:cfb8:3ae3 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6f9886341c9ms7b3;
Tue, 4 Feb 2025 13:39:37 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:2101:b0:e58:a25d:5696 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e5b25c20fe3mr603494276.45.1738705176245;
Tue, 04 Feb 2025 13:39:36 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1738705176; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=gcZ5HQEShBGFWG3vAyGMujbNwfHpXoSEAgoayLz/MH0E7BGozJXZRT9KAUwC+NIj9X
qZgQ6UehDv9DVeglG6L4RtydwcQ4mUsRHsEu34t5nnAdZ7Y2PTnl6Iq4dQM60TFRpd9+
eZ0KV+KmehEkffftbPyOM9n7PW9R217/+IlXTwXNgJ9YukuBCz/xebiY9TNqCyqYKqWQ
RGSzNy+0ZCzK8CJpnbcWhAd2VMWIbIeBNqzmHYB7Tq7Sa1SiLwpYNXV/vqlgtoSvMZIh
tgi+EcaaFRAGutJIJbN6hz8cLpnb3zDUHwgDlcDm+wTP8sLw4FrzErUfV/s4lL7EA71B
J+9g==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id
:subject:cc:to:from:date:feedback-id:dkim-signature;
bh=sy70JyheNwTus0H4siSt0VKDc55IJ4tpKTnq0+zh2lA=;
fh=C1Ls0YWQH8sy+5Mmpo4wijHn2YY5J47tus+H0w/1uGU=;
b=AB4FjK+NlxVIm5qKKb5jCP2XfyjbDs1UpmxVQUQJmrz6qu2TLQ6oXTWDZHwcmOdPYE
vA6IIvmSTQ2bsiF9ZX2ZH96lBCleevWbjvuaSRZsBOcy8Y2KQGhzrxruuxOZu4rT1+g1
lXRL0G1VJ3bl7SYSRj1JTW0/lcpOy6/bE7ezu4Q3b735hDTdf61EgFbqImV6K15HWEIW
I/XioDeKV2Wxvzws9MA75oUMk+k3GJ+AWc9a3tMeOBse5qlrAZy+unCYVF9J4vAxW3Pw
u18NlaJjMkhk6cug6y908EQJFtW+wvN5pRrBwcBHUwaverd/02WPrSUaf9eAst8MsLW1
YFow==;
dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=GJyGcGsN;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.156 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org
Received: from fhigh-a5-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-a5-smtp.messagingengine.com. [103.168.172.156])
by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 3f1490d57ef6-e5b257fd5e9si7192276.1.2025.02.04.13.39.36
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
Tue, 04 Feb 2025 13:39:36 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.156 as permitted sender) client-ip=103.168.172.156;
Received: from phl-compute-06.internal (phl-compute-06.phl.internal [10.202.2.46])
by mailfhigh.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC47A11401DA;
Tue, 4 Feb 2025 16:39:35 -0500 (EST)
Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163])
by phl-compute-06.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 04 Feb 2025 16:39:35 -0500
X-ME-Sender: <xms:F4miZ_hhdaERGYFdmW7SbS3Kk5C115Ml3_A1oNAX0i4-xqU4ARnSKA>
<xme:F4miZ8Cild3V3c41vtqGSK3ZL3Bzzhh4nIVj9cCZ2HYV61j-3jxuu1CPAsIjxn3OV
r31K6Fth1lj3LV60Wg>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:F4miZ_EjT0kNu3reUxwqHWGzCHx-bfCS1VtH_QdA-4aCXEcIFUPEw_59cTVI4A>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgddvudeifecutefuodetggdotefrod
ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdp
uffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffhvf
evuffkfhggtggujgesghdtreertddtvdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgvrhcuvfhougguuceo
phgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeelvdelle
fftddukeduffejgfefjeeuheeileeftdfgteduteeggeevueethfejtdenucffohhmrghi
nhepphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrh
grmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehpvghtvgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrghdpnhgspghr
tghpthhtohepvddpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepsghithgtohhinh
guvghvsehgohhoghhlvghgrhhouhhpshdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopegrrhhmtghhrghi
rhgtrhihphhtohhlohhgihhsthesphhrohhtohhnmhgrihhlrdgtohhm
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:F4miZ8Q_DLZhfNnoiP0NaMGI29DwTpv8XbcufYDm0Zy4L069sX1ycQ>
<xmx:F4miZ8wCdYFVNRRXUQ_gk3ATcwyMXJ1ySImKwri8-gCg2HMbqHFj3Q>
<xmx:F4miZy4VTDwwAW3riuzI6wAyR95Od6CaIPxcaJIT1qD0Y3tPhTvngQ>
<xmx:F4miZxzqceSUVJhy7BXHEXPjPUhCwejQRCa_lS9DGztlyj2nASrpgw>
<xmx:F4miZ7rlnpjwj-zC30gnOn4Gi_dMp0Tvn8IPOd0hy8DoUo_mEX5hnxGD>
Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue,
4 Feb 2025 16:39:35 -0500 (EST)
Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id 1EAB29FCD2; Tue, 4 Feb 2025 21:39:34 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2025 21:39:34 +0000
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: ArmchairCryptologist <ArmchairCryptologist@protonmail.com>
Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Transaction expiration should be based on the most
recent transaction in a group, not the first
Message-ID: <Z6KJFvikr27e7Igk@petertodd.org>
References: <Z5lZc28t9-tCxdHN@petertodd.org>
<rqLkuDekAhYC8mO9BMrqXGQjv-Oq1a1jA2EDLdiohq9kHIQpE-MpzqFjqY15Cc5flU_GUrE7NoSxB_4wgkQg8Mv8IQdtzlXLtuxK76n7YRQ=@protonmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="snkLLSlxIBptqMEG"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <rqLkuDekAhYC8mO9BMrqXGQjv-Oq1a1jA2EDLdiohq9kHIQpE-MpzqFjqY15Cc5flU_GUrE7NoSxB_4wgkQg8Mv8IQdtzlXLtuxK76n7YRQ=@protonmail.com>
X-Original-Sender: pete@petertodd.org
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass
header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=GJyGcGsN; spf=pass
(google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.156 as
permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
<https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/)
--snkLLSlxIBptqMEG
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 12:02:56PM +0000, 'ArmchairCryptologist' via Bitcoi=
n Development Mailing List wrote:
> Is expiration-based mempool eviction necessary or even desirable anymore?=
I'm consistently seeing unconfirmed transactions from months ago being reb=
roadcast and (now that the mempool is draining) eventually confirming, with=
out anyone even trying to exploit anything. So from what I can tell, the on=
ly thing this really accomplishes is wasting CPU cycles and bandwidth evict=
ing and later re-accepting the transactions in question.
All it would take is one person running a rebroadcasting service to make
mempool eviction useless except in the rare case that a soft-fork of
standard transactions has happened. Although even then, arguably you are
better off not wasting bandwidth re-accepting those transactions over
and over again.
> You were never able to rely on unconfirmed transactions ever going away w=
ithout double-spending one of the inputs in the first place, and full-RBF i=
s even a thing now, so this will always be possible.
Agreed.
> The mempool is capped by size anyway, so while I may be missing something=
, I cannot honestly see any good reasons to keep this mechanism at all, esp=
ecially if it can be used as a vector for attacks.
>
> The only drawback I can think of is that abandontransaction currently doe=
s not work if a transaction is in the mempool, but it would probably be bet=
ter to improve it so it actually evicts the transaction from the mempool of=
the local node if necessary.
Agreed. I've run into this problem before myself.
--=20
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
Z6KJFvikr27e7Igk%40petertodd.org.
--snkLLSlxIBptqMEG
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----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=0kVz
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--snkLLSlxIBptqMEG--
|
