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In-Reply-To: <e007ba14-c66d-4e8c-9b9e-adb2c4025be5n@googlegroups.com>
From: K Calvin <ccychc@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 23:20:27 +0900
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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: [BIP Proposal] Utreexo Nodes
To: Javier Mateos <javierpmateos@gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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Hey Javier,

Thanks for taking the time to do the conceptual analysis.

As for the missing detail you mentioned, I think this section in the
validation BIP has that covered:
https://github.com/utreexo/biptreexo/blob/main/utreexo-validation-bip.md#or=
der-of-operations

We wanted the accumulator BIP free from any Bitcoin related operations.
Thus anything that has to do with validation of Bitcoin blocks will be
found in the validation BIP.

Best,
Calvin

On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 6:22=E2=80=AFPM Javier Mateos <javierpmateos@gmail.=
com>
wrote:

> Hi Calvin, Tadge, Davidson,
> Thanks for sharing this important work ...it's exciting to see Utreexo
> maturing into a full BIP proposal. The modular split into accumulator,
> validation, and P2P layers is very clean and helpful for review.
> After a quick conceptual and implementation-level analysis, I believe
> there's a critical detail missing from the current accumulator spec: a
> deterministic order for processing UTXO deletions and additions per block=
.
> Aside from that, the spec is well written and shows deep consideration.
> Best regards,
>
> El martes, 29 de julio de 2025 a las 20:26:42 UTC-3, Calvin Kim escribi=
=C3=B3:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Tadge Dryja, Davidson Souza, and I would like to propose 3 BIPs
>> describing Utreexo, a consensus-compatible (non-soft fork) way to send a=
nd
>> verify transactions without storing the full UTXO set.
>>
>> The 3 BIPs are for:
>>
>>    1. The specification of the Utreexo accumulator.
>>    2. The specification of Bitcoin block and tx validation using the
>>    Utreexo accumulator.
>>    3. The peer to peer networking changes required to enable Utreexo
>>    nodes.
>>
>>
>> We are currently looking for conceptual review. Do note that the
>> documents are not final, and they will be updated.
>>
>> All of the BIPs can be found here: https://github.com/utreexo/biptreexo
>>
>> We thank you in advance for your time and consideration.
>>
>> Best,
>> Calvin
>>
> --
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<div dir=3D"auto">Hey Javier,</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto">Thanks for taking the time to do the conceptual analysis.</div><div d=
ir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">As for the missing detail you menti=
oned, I think this section in the validation BIP has that covered:<div><a h=
ref=3D"https://github.com/utreexo/biptreexo/blob/main/utreexo-validation-bi=
p.md#order-of-operations">https://github.com/utreexo/biptreexo/blob/main/ut=
reexo-validation-bip.md#order-of-operations</a></div></div><div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">We wanted the accumulator BIP free from any B=
itcoin related operations. Thus anything that has to do with validation of =
Bitcoin blocks will be found in the validation BIP.</div><div dir=3D"auto">=
<br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Best,</div><div dir=3D"auto">Calvin</div><div><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 6:22=E2=80=AFPM Javier Mateos &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:javierpmateos@gmail.com">javierpmateos@gmail.com</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;bord=
er-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div style=3D"border:0px;font-variant-numer=
ic:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-variant-alternates:inherit;=
font-size:12pt;line-height:inherit;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif=
;font-size-adjust:inherit;font-kerning:inherit;font-feature-settings:inheri=
t;margin:1em 0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Hi C=
alvin, Tadge, Davidson,</div><div style=3D"border:0px;font-variant-numeric:=
inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-variant-alternates:inherit;fon=
t-size:12pt;line-height:inherit;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size-adjust:inherit;font-kerning:inherit;font-feature-settings:inherit;m=
argin:1em 0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Thanks =
for sharing this important work ...it&#39;s exciting to see Utreexo maturin=
g into a full BIP proposal. The modular split into accumulator, validation,=
 and P2P layers is very clean and helpful for review.</div><div style=3D"bo=
rder:0px;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-=
variant-alternates:inherit;font-size:12pt;line-height:inherit;font-family:C=
alibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size-adjust:inherit;font-kerning:inherit;f=
ont-feature-settings:inherit;margin:1em 0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:base=
line;color:rgb(0,0,0)">After a quick conceptual and implementation-level an=
alysis, I believe there&#39;s a critical detail missing from the current ac=
cumulator spec: a deterministic order for processing UTXO deletions and add=
itions per block.</div><div style=3D"border:0px;font-variant-numeric:inheri=
t;font-variant-east-asian:inherit;font-variant-alternates:inherit;font-size=
:12pt;line-height:inherit;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e-adjust:inherit;font-kerning:inherit;font-feature-settings:inherit;margin:=
1em 0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Aside from th=
at, the spec is well written and shows deep consideration.</div><div style=
=3D"border:0px;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-variant-east-asian:inherit=
;font-variant-alternates:inherit;font-size:12pt;line-height:inherit;font-fa=
mily:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size-adjust:inherit;font-kerning:inh=
erit;font-feature-settings:inherit;margin:1em 0px;padding:0px;vertical-alig=
n:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Best regards,</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_attr">El martes, 29 de julio de 2025 a=
 las 20:26:42 UTC-3, Calvin Kim escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;bo=
rder-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">=
<div>Hello all,<br><br>Tadge Dryja, Davidson Souza, and I would like to pro=
pose 3 BIPs describing Utreexo, a consensus-compatible (non-soft fork) way =
to send and verify transactions without storing the full UTXO set.<br><br>T=
he 3 BIPs are for:<br><ol><li><span>The specification of the Utreexo accumu=
lator.</span></li><li><span>The specification of Bitcoin block and tx valid=
ation using the Utreexo accumulator.</span></li><li><span>The peer to peer =
networking changes required to enable Utreexo nodes.</span></li></ol><br>We=
 are currently looking for conceptual review. Do note that the documents ar=
e not final, and they will be updated.<br><br>All of the BIPs can be found =
here: <a href=3D"https://github.com/utreexo/biptreexo" rel=3D"nofollow" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://github.com/utreexo/biptreexo</a></div><div><br></div=
><div>We thank you in advance for your time and consideration.<br></div><di=
v><br>Best,<br>Calvin<br></div></blockquote></div>

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</blockquote></div></div>

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