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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:57:15 -0800 (PST)
From: "'stutxo' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: TRUC and P2A for CTV fee management
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thanks floppy disk guy,=20

i updated this example with the correct way a single 1c1p spend with no p2a=
=20
would look like

parent
https://mempool.space/signet/tx/7a3768737ae4e20a556de6f475bfc74a13a8fda2287=
dbabbf6ffe8d7f5500de2

child
https://mempool.space/signet/tx/3135e52ad30eb788d455549f4f09b55f887cdd2eb16=
60180b0e12f10af807cf5

Although im not sure how useful this one is, i guess its nice because you=
=20
can still get the parent transaction in to the mempool even with 0 fees=20

I also added an example of v3 transactions and p2a to my ctv payment pool=
=20
PoC here https://github.com/stutxo/op_ctv_payment_pool=20

On Saturday, December 21, 2024 at 4:42:08=E2=80=AFAM UTC /dev /fd0 wrote:

> Hi stu,
>
> Thanks for testing packages and P2A with CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY on signet.=
=20
>
> This example in the README looks incorrect:
>
> > ### Bumping Fee by Deducting Fee from CTV Output
> > For some reason if you still wanted to pay the fee with just the ctv=20
> ouput you could take it from the output value
> > - [bump fee without extra input or child transaction: Parent Transactio=
n=20
> on Mempool Space](
> https://mempool.space/signet/tx/86896275fb71d4e3b84d1edeeacb90f7c4ccf77ee=
3a29e66d7effff4bb0682fb
> )
>
> /dev/fd0
> flopppy disk guy
>
> On Wednesday, December 18, 2024 at 5:57:19=E2=80=AFAM UTC+5:30 stutxo wro=
te:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I am trying to learn more about op_ctv (or its true name,=20
>> op_securethebag). One thing I keep hearing is that estimating fees are=
=20
>> potentially an issue when spending CTV transactions.=20
>>
>> jamesob mentioned fees in his simple_ctv_valut=20
>> <https://github.com/jamesob/simple-ctv-vault>
>>
>> *Because coins may remain vaulted for long periods of time, the unvault=
=20
>> process is sensitive to changes in the fee market. Because use of OP_CTV=
=20
>> requires precommiting to a tree of all possible specific outputs and the=
=20
>> number of inputs, we cannot use RBF to dynamically adjust feerate of=20
>> unvaulting transactions.*
>> and rustyrussell on nostr also mentioned fees being a problem=20
>> <https://primal.net/e/note1ulw6tr8hrqz092wy02fcyshn3fgt309kc5w95mhl7j0sh=
j7c9zxsu8a2mw>
>> =20
>> *Optimised sponsors for solving the "but how do I add fees" problem in a=
=20
>> way that doesn't drive miner centralisation.*
>>
>> With v3 transactions available in bitcoin 28.0=20
>> <https://bitcoinops.org/en/bitcoin-core-28-wallet-integration-guide/>the=
re=20
>> are a bunch of new techniques that have been enabled that we can use to=
=20
>> hopefully solve these issues
>>
>> As long as you have an output for 240 sats paying to a P2A address, such=
=20
>> as tb1pfees9rn5nz on signet, you or anyone else will be able to bump the=
=20
>> fees using CPFP on the anchor output.=20
>>
>> I have some examples of these transactions here on signet
>>
>> CTV spend transaction with zero fees:
>>
>> https://mempool.space/signet/tx/32f4f4e6165e7f8df9b9a762e11a6ca7f1608771=
3e0e3e42352021e6bf3800e3
>>
>> P2A CPFP transaction:
>>
>> https://mempool.space/signet/tx/9a3582f03b0ac39cff8ed024cf8f38e4fc4a1ee2=
ff216badf041bf4572c0d03b
>>
>> Code used is here:
>> https://github.com/stutxo/simple_ctv
>>
>> Is there anything I am missing here? What are the downsides of this=20
>> method? Is this how most ctv scripts spends would work?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> stu
>>
>

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
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thanks floppy disk guy,=C2=A0<br /><br />i updated this example with the co=
rrect way a single 1c1p spend with no p2a would look like<br /><br />parent=
<br />https://mempool.space/signet/tx/7a3768737ae4e20a556de6f475bfc74a13a8f=
da2287dbabbf6ffe8d7f5500de2<br /><br />child<br />https://mempool.space/sig=
net/tx/3135e52ad30eb788d455549f4f09b55f887cdd2eb1660180b0e12f10af807cf5<br =
/><br />Although im not sure how useful this one is, i guess its nice becau=
se you can still get the parent transaction in to the mempool even with 0 f=
ees=C2=A0<br /><br />I also added an example of v3 transactions and p2a to =
my ctv payment pool PoC here=C2=A0https://github.com/stutxo/op_ctv_payment_=
pool=C2=A0<br /><br /><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D=
"gmail_attr">On Saturday, December 21, 2024 at 4:42:08=E2=80=AFAM UTC /dev =
/fd0 wrote:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 =
0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">H=
i stu,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for testing packages and P2A with CHECKTEM=
PLATEVERIFY on signet.=C2=A0<br><br>This example in the README looks incorr=
ect:</div><div><br>&gt; ### Bumping Fee by Deducting Fee from CTV Output<br=
>&gt; For some reason if you still wanted to pay the fee with just the ctv =
ouput you could take it from the output value<br>&gt; - [bump fee without e=
xtra input or child transaction: Parent Transaction on Mempool Space](<a hr=
ef=3D"https://mempool.space/signet/tx/86896275fb71d4e3b84d1edeeacb90f7c4ccf=
77ee3a29e66d7effff4bb0682fb" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-safere=
directurl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://mempool.spa=
ce/signet/tx/86896275fb71d4e3b84d1edeeacb90f7c4ccf77ee3a29e66d7effff4bb0682=
fb&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1735692325807000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3kyDDw7pNP=
5IMoGXvWjlwg">https://mempool.space/signet/tx/86896275fb71d4e3b84d1edeeacb9=
0f7c4ccf77ee3a29e66d7effff4bb0682fb</a>)<br><br>/dev/fd0</div><div>flopppy =
disk guy</div><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" c=
lass=3D"gmail_attr">On Wednesday, December 18, 2024 at 5:57:19=E2=80=AFAM U=
TC+5:30 stutxo wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">=
Hi everyone,<div><br>I am trying to learn more about op_ctv (or its true na=
me, op_securethebag). One thing I keep hearing is that estimating fees are =
potentially an issue when spending CTV transactions.=C2=A0<br><i><br></i>ja=
mesob=C2=A0mentioned fees in his <a href=3D"https://github.com/jamesob/simp=
le-ctv-vault" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"ht=
tps://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/jamesob/simple-=
ctv-vault&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1735692325807000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1Ql=
CiZSqYBbRjRN4MSUBP9">simple_ctv_valut</a><i><br>Because coins may remain va=
ulted for long periods of time, the unvault process is sensitive to changes=
 in the fee market. Because use of OP_CTV requires precommiting to a tree o=
f all possible specific outputs and the number of inputs, we cannot use RBF=
 to dynamically adjust feerate of unvaulting transactions.<br></i><br>and r=
ustyrussell on nostr also mentioned fees being a <a href=3D"https://primal.=
net/e/note1ulw6tr8hrqz092wy02fcyshn3fgt309kc5w95mhl7j0shj7c9zxsu8a2mw" rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.=
com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://primal.net/e/note1ulw6tr8hrqz092wy02fcyshn3=
fgt309kc5w95mhl7j0shj7c9zxsu8a2mw&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D173569232580=
7000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3Gl5mZv75c6b5mXyR0mgZn">problem</a>=C2=A0<br><i>Optimi=
sed sponsors for solving the &quot;but how do I add fees&quot; problem in a=
 way that doesn&#39;t drive miner centralisation.</i><br><br>With <a href=
=3D"https://bitcoinops.org/en/bitcoin-core-28-wallet-integration-guide/" re=
l=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google=
.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://bitcoinops.org/en/bitcoin-core-28-wallet-i=
ntegration-guide/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1735692325807000&amp;usg=3DA=
OvVaw1usvyDxG34aTsQVYSmPn5L">v3 transactions available in bitcoin 28.0 </a>=
there are a bunch of new techniques that have been enabled that we can use =
to hopefully solve these issues</div><div><br>As long as you have an output=
 for 240 sats paying to a P2A address, such as tb1pfees9rn5nz on signet, yo=
u or anyone else will be able to bump the fees using CPFP on the anchor out=
put.=C2=A0</div><div><br>I have some examples of these transactions here on=
 signet</div><div><div><br>CTV spend transaction with zero fees:<br><a href=
=3D"https://mempool.space/signet/tx/32f4f4e6165e7f8df9b9a762e11a6ca7f160877=
13e0e3e42352021e6bf3800e3" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedi=
recturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://mempool.space=
/signet/tx/32f4f4e6165e7f8df9b9a762e11a6ca7f16087713e0e3e42352021e6bf3800e3=
&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1735692325807000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw22yvDwIoMIDC=
INpn4F0037">https://mempool.space/signet/tx/32f4f4e6165e7f8df9b9a762e11a6ca=
7f16087713e0e3e42352021e6bf3800e3</a></div><div><br>P2A CPFP transaction:<b=
r><a href=3D"https://mempool.space/signet/tx/9a3582f03b0ac39cff8ed024cf8f38=
e4fc4a1ee2ff216badf041bf4572c0d03b" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data=
-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://memp=
ool.space/signet/tx/9a3582f03b0ac39cff8ed024cf8f38e4fc4a1ee2ff216badf041bf4=
572c0d03b&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1735692325807000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw04M=
79vu54oGUOTXqHbo8tk">https://mempool.space/signet/tx/9a3582f03b0ac39cff8ed0=
24cf8f38e4fc4a1ee2ff216badf041bf4572c0d03b</a></div><div><br></div><div>Cod=
e used is here:<br><a href=3D"https://github.com/stutxo/simple_ctv" rel=3D"=
nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/=
url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/stutxo/simple_ctv&amp;source=3Dgmail=
&amp;ust=3D1735692325807000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw2RNf2UE_8N0NPD8mbmWCZA">https:/=
/github.com/stutxo/simple_ctv</a></div><br>Is there anything I am missing h=
ere? What are the downsides of this method? Is this how most ctv scripts sp=
ends would work?</div><div><br>Thanks!<br>stu</div></blockquote></div></blo=
ckquote></div>

<p></p>

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