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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2025 14:58:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "'Donald Dienst' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Message-Id: <b1bdc366-bc27-44dd-b1c6-83776cb9d55fn@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: [BIP Proposal] Proof-of-Activity Reclamation (PoAR)
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=20

Boris,

Thank you for taking the time to raise these thoughtful objections. They=20
highlight important edge cases, particularly around long-term inheritance=
=20
planning and time-locked contracts, that deserve further discussion.

The intent of this proposal is not to seize anyone=E2=80=99s Bitcoin but to=
 create=20
a rules-based mechanism for reintroducing truly abandoned coins=E2=80=94tho=
se=20
locked away forever due to lost keys=E2=80=94back into the economy. If a pr=
ivate=20
key is irrecoverably lost, the associated Bitcoin is effectively removed=20
from circulation and, arguably, no longer owned. In such cases, the=20
so-called "security tax" affects no active participant.

That said, your concerns are valid. One potential refinement would be to=20
extend the inactivity window significantly=E2=80=94perhaps even to 100 year=
s=E2=80=94to=20
better accommodate multi-generational ownership and time-locked smart=20
contracts. The core idea is that a sufficiently long timeframe, paired with=
=20
clear expectations and wallet alerts, can strike a balance between=20
preserving ownership rights and sustaining economic viability.

It's also possible that this proposal=E2=80=94or one like it=E2=80=94may on=
ly be=20
realistically implemented as part of a broader hard fork in the distant=20
future, potentially bundled with other critical changes such as=20
post-quantum security upgrades. I hope that when that moment comes, a=20
mechanism for reclaiming permanently lost coins is part of that discussion.

To those who object on purely ideological grounds, I would offer this=20
reflection: if something can happen, it will happen=E2=80=94and it will con=
tinue to=20
happen. People will keep losing keys. And one day, someone will lose the=20
private key to the very last satoshi. Long before that point, Bitcoin may=
=20
become functionally unusable=E2=80=94not because of inflation like fiat cur=
rencies,=20
but due to irreversible deflation and economic ossification.

In that light, maintaining the myth that permanently lost coins should=20
remain sacrosanct is not ideological purity=E2=80=94it=E2=80=99s advocating=
 for a slow=20
march toward irrelevance. To preserve Bitcoin=E2=80=99s utility as both a s=
tore of=20
value and a medium of exchange, we must confront this eventuality with=20
reasoned, transparent, and opt-in solutions.

Sincerely,
*Donald D. Dienst*


On Tuesday, July 15, 2025 at 3:42:15=E2=80=AFPM UTC-4 Boris Nagaev wrote:

> Hi Donald,
>
> Thanks for sharing your proposal!
>
> There are several additional objections worth considering:
>
>    1. It would require a hard fork. Older nodes would reject blocks with=
=20
>    a higher-than-expected miner reward. By contrast, SegWit and Taproot w=
ere=20
>    implemented as soft forks.
>    2. It breaks long-term inheritance schemes. Imagine a newborn=20
>    inheriting 1000 BTC from a wealthy relative. The relative sets a 30-ye=
ar=20
>    timelock to ensure the funds are not misused during childhood. This=20
>    proposal would interfere with that intention and potentially strip the=
 heir=20
>    of their rightful inheritance.
>    3. It penalizes long-term planning and low time preference. Users who=
=20
>    intentionally lock up funds for decades (whether for inheritance, secu=
rity,=20
>    or economic reasons) would be disproportionately impacted.
>    4. It changes who pays for network security. Miners are expected to be=
=20
>    compensated in the long term by transaction fees paid by active transa=
ction=20
>    senders. This proposal would instead take value from long-term holders=
 who=20
>    aren't participating in the transaction flow, effectively taxing them=
=20
>    without consent.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Boris
>
> On Tuesday, July 15, 2025 at 3:26:35=E2=80=AFPM UTC-3 Donald Dienst wrote=
:
>
> Dear Bitcoin developers,
>
> I would like to propose a new BIP titled "Proof-of-Activity Reclamation=
=20
> (PoAR)," which aims to address the long-term economic effects of lost and=
=20
> abandoned UTXOs.
>
> This proposal introduces a fully automated and rule-based mechanism to=20
> gradually recycle coins that have been provably inactive for over 20 year=
s.=20
> These coins are returned to the undistributed pool and slowly reintroduce=
d=20
> via future block rewards=E2=80=94extending miner incentives while respect=
ing the 21=20
> million BTC cap.
>
> You can view the full proposal here:
> https://gist.github.com/Brandchatz/56c39d289db9e56190c13922850815b8
>
> I welcome your thoughts, suggestions, and critiques.
>
> Best regards, =20
> Donald Dienst =20
> dddi...@protonmail.com
>
>

--=20
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Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
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<p>Boris,</p>
<p>Thank you for taking the time to raise these thoughtful objections. They=
 highlight important edge cases, particularly around long-term inheritance =
planning and time-locked contracts, that deserve further discussion.</p>
<p>The intent of this proposal is not to seize anyone=E2=80=99s Bitcoin but=
 to create a rules-based mechanism for reintroducing truly abandoned coins=
=E2=80=94those locked away forever due to lost keys=E2=80=94back into the e=
conomy. If a private key is irrecoverably lost, the associated Bitcoin is e=
ffectively removed from circulation and, arguably, no longer owned. In such=
 cases, the so-called "security tax" affects no active participant.</p>
<p>That said, your concerns are valid. One potential refinement would be to=
 extend the inactivity window significantly=E2=80=94perhaps even to 100 yea=
rs=E2=80=94to better accommodate multi-generational ownership and time-lock=
ed smart contracts. The core idea is that a sufficiently long timeframe, pa=
ired with clear expectations and wallet alerts, can strike a balance betwee=
n preserving ownership rights and sustaining economic viability.</p>
<p>It's also possible that this proposal=E2=80=94or one like it=E2=80=94may=
 only be realistically implemented as part of a broader hard fork in the di=
stant future, potentially bundled with other critical changes such as post-=
quantum security upgrades. I hope that when that moment comes, a mechanism =
for reclaiming permanently lost coins is part of that discussion.</p>
<p>To those who object on purely ideological grounds, I would offer this re=
flection: if something can happen, it will happen=E2=80=94and it will conti=
nue to happen. People will keep losing keys. And one day, someone will lose=
 the private key to the very last satoshi. Long before that point, Bitcoin =
may become functionally unusable=E2=80=94not because of inflation like fiat=
 currencies, but due to irreversible deflation and economic ossification.</=
p>
<p>In that light, maintaining the myth that permanently lost coins should r=
emain sacrosanct is not ideological purity=E2=80=94it=E2=80=99s advocating =
for a slow march toward irrelevance. To preserve Bitcoin=E2=80=99s utility =
as both a store of value and a medium of exchange, we must confront this ev=
entuality with reasoned, transparent, and opt-in solutions.</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
<strong>Donald D. Dienst</strong></p>

<br /><br /><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_att=
r">On Tuesday, July 15, 2025 at 3:42:15=E2=80=AFPM UTC-4 Boris Nagaev wrote=
:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex;=
 border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Hi Donald,<=
br><br>Thanks for sharing your proposal!<br><br>There are several additiona=
l objections worth considering:<br><ol><li>It would require a hard fork. Ol=
der nodes would reject blocks with a higher-than-expected miner reward. By =
contrast, SegWit and Taproot were implemented as soft forks.</li><li>It bre=
aks long-term inheritance schemes. Imagine a newborn inheriting 1000 BTC fr=
om a wealthy relative. The relative sets a 30-year timelock to ensure the f=
unds are not misused during childhood. This proposal would interfere with t=
hat intention and potentially strip the heir of their rightful inheritance.=
</li><li>It penalizes long-term planning and low time preference. Users who=
 intentionally lock up funds for decades (whether for inheritance, security=
, or economic reasons) would be disproportionately impacted.</li><li>It cha=
nges who pays for network security.=C2=A0Miners are expected to be compensa=
ted in the long term by transaction fees paid by active transaction senders=
.=C2=A0This proposal would instead take value from long-term holders who ar=
en&#39;t participating in the transaction flow, effectively taxing them wit=
hout consent.</li></ol><br>Best regards,<br><div>Boris</div><div><br></div>=
<div><div dir=3D"auto">On Tuesday, July 15, 2025 at 3:26:35=E2=80=AFPM UTC-=
3 Donald Dienst wrote:<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear Bitcoin de=
velopers,<br><br>I would like to propose a new BIP titled &quot;Proof-of-Ac=
tivity Reclamation (PoAR),&quot; which aims to address the long-term econom=
ic effects of lost and abandoned UTXOs.<br><br>This proposal introduces a f=
ully automated and rule-based mechanism to gradually recycle coins that hav=
e been provably inactive for over 20 years. These coins are returned to the=
 undistributed pool and slowly reintroduced via future block rewards=E2=80=
=94extending miner incentives while respecting the 21 million BTC cap.<br><=
br>You can view the full proposal here:<br><a href=3D"https://gist.github.c=
om/Brandchatz/56c39d289db9e56190c13922850815b8" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"=
_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3D=
https://gist.github.com/Brandchatz/56c39d289db9e56190c13922850815b8&amp;sou=
rce=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1752703032131000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw33OzSmobHSO7K3fMAfSq=
yx">https://gist.github.com/Brandchatz/56c39d289db9e56190c13922850815b8</a>=
<br><br>I welcome your thoughts, suggestions, and critiques.<br><br>Best re=
gards, =C2=A0<br>Donald Dienst =C2=A0<br><a rel=3D"nofollow">dddi...@proton=
mail.com</a></blockquote></div></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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