1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
|
Delivery-date: Tue, 10 Jun 2025 02:52:34 -0700
Received: from mail-qv1-f64.google.com ([209.85.219.64])
by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
(Exim 4.94.2)
(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBDMNZTU6RUCBBV4AUDBAMGQE7W2ARNY@googlegroups.com>)
id 1uOvej-0007yP-Co
for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Tue, 10 Jun 2025 02:52:34 -0700
Received: by mail-qv1-f64.google.com with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6fafc9f3e1bsf72475356d6.0
for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Tue, 10 Jun 2025 02:52:33 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1749549147; cv=pass;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=KEHlr2I0vhYGeYCpArU0mT2QU2/L51nWEQi8ZHMxoOWkH5EWsPXnIFIpiQkHye2UMk
EOLkxNpkmMEnd/HgloXmBZzZo/ZbvDQQcIl+85PBCP/F9wM2dp1moKc+ZB7vObWs/Tdu
SXu82uN+YZbpaV4eJ7/Mi312E4x/KyThreMkISzTlDS7VMhwNy8sGzHzSKfgbTM2w7/2
fYsRT17Grr8HI8HTsK1095to4tf5UslsjlrkHnv5yznQzSW8uBJzvULJySihuXYSgJbQ
GqtfKNc3yhYkocB+lKdUYc56i0rZxfnRvLcrOXcbIn1cF5QVKjw5GFkadM6wThtHa2zX
RKZg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from
:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:sender:dkim-signature
:dkim-signature;
bh=PWFKOkbB6Fcii9S1GTiYu3oeelTbBiSo2OKmmn0w6bE=;
fh=118rWRZ5A5ObAOscIYZefNSMyLo0Tg2pJpXo9QrSirU=;
b=ZZ5OnpHg2oB6J5DpXkKq5AyZ7rrZd4/XQKEYYE/AGifO4eDuL4GKNmheOpx8IzIyiM
aAuZxV3lxXOqi26BNfSkItrIdW7eoctinhOqzDHoPMRAxgma4+hxgEhMyqUlcPlPiNG1
1en1I5EsBPad+M8NYwgVd1JYnuhc2u3NtmJYWeHwiXHa8TABO2RuntNWYvAmGiqa2rF8
oON536rfAepek7PULsoqVUq0MV0T+qaiUkhI/fDRYOHWuC8T9AudyHWd1QHoxGA2XPzj
ukDIwbbUN3U/JUu6r2tHsfAHrDbS1IPMl1X5e937bDN8sF/cUcJr7Ite96/ugxOQbr29
RdIg==;
darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=hiJEEAJO;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of melvincarvalho@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=melvincarvalho@gmail.com;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1749549147; x=1750153947; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to
:references:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
:reply-to;
bh=PWFKOkbB6Fcii9S1GTiYu3oeelTbBiSo2OKmmn0w6bE=;
b=MFGotYCWBQNBMYngkYamFfQf/8Php6b7y/nj/CgMUub2EBRj9Z8YTMkenfnZWfJYtr
vWAF83QBEYJlnnJcK2Ly4EsasV+2r4f2l3gdoJl02hPMV7ASS9Uxy6t4GRwnx0dD3lEI
cgcBell/pYHhRLSsTQlIRsA7hvJqYm/ZXMnDIVuCcvhahpukhU7KRxorN4txB89WQTZC
b6pMxpKzDsdyY19C7xkkrNOsL47ReqtUHwJknMV4miYQpWYGg8ytwfBaQSZssTLTE8v8
b6PV3r+kMIXSZJnr8UdUMPccCQD1kDn44PK8A3chpSyguuJ8Pr+Ru0FBr52XWWzdw8kh
H1fw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1749549147; x=1750153947; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to
:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=PWFKOkbB6Fcii9S1GTiYu3oeelTbBiSo2OKmmn0w6bE=;
b=d30ByBN4MaSdza4X1Mx8NwjpBpG5knDjrg7YI2GMaPOWgsRVb0I+4cCrygd/JrS+w+
c1rhHFx4kVRpdeikCwhkuCu14Ldk5CAHurddZCcOKXrWW+gvW/XeqKCFpYluj4s0rkjn
UwqCmiaT4v2fpPHypQcYDCW4/i4vBcC2Oa1AjHDqG/eMyy6MpzmZRoSlZEWwvvaS/UyD
Fb9e72QY3VBm+5DEat0Yx9rYreYRIsdrt4NpVb+iC1RBtEiwz/vDRl7T6I38PF/GInTy
cV/eO+wztJiv6Zx3hViG9dhFGy7KBGAmHFqxQdzP1K0tEBVsrUEqtvCtSbMajTXrWlCi
UpoA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1749549147; x=1750153947;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to
:references:mime-version:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from
:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=PWFKOkbB6Fcii9S1GTiYu3oeelTbBiSo2OKmmn0w6bE=;
b=e9y84VaTIJH818TRcvYhQZcUejg/K0uIxqAQgHlSOIdN+TZxjFQDGIglePy53d6RiG
7jZf/yjkpBkd42iphTH0O/51KYXMLLP101l5bl6my4kje455PK8wL30ygo2HwFmumyUW
CfpbVBOI1MqhdQu/2ZBxXX1D2UdF4/rkVJZ7QgWC/46+SUyQa/BsZyWCAtIgnCBJQRV+
nctJ5UJEtPBT/b/kx0PFADqayYLajkt5VSySEDsZUGPpoA+xr396KKX5UtA4DOwuzG4i
vfAOz+xptBejyUDndmN06ebTNFKz0SPdSAlOaLvkbvoCbHOtgHMbcLmpUPBsZewidqWx
cs4g==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWkm4SThppdH94lQ6JscHj+BCa6nMb+ZGguIoqYmdEvXMXWKgHJHVPdCODT+VGmVGKpGR/rK9wLoool@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy8KDMKS2J36CIcSCnmPWYgvgoFJDkZvCUJBKKjxyMQlBZkMMBx
jmUJofRsSybXoElT1Tnuy6bSMSlKwhc7u22JRiat6dCokDd2uLEcvlcw
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFnC+E0rxSlta8q4EJIZ8bIw8NejbNnK+iRiBwtRUfCjm3vF69qLslTDlwWC4aH4hly7/09ug==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:e8e:b0:6f5:fb5:35f0 with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6fb08fcc2e5mr251892186d6.30.1749549146913;
Tue, 10 Jun 2025 02:52:26 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=AZMbMZddF6d/wsFoqWLEfk6roHVt63x93EHnw0CKDbLdkMwe1w==
Received: by 2002:ad4:5d4c:0:b0:6fa:c3dc:b004 with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6faffaae72fls76373026d6.2.-pod-prod-01-us;
Tue, 10 Jun 2025 02:52:23 -0700 (PDT)
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCVvnsBf1bYy5T9vsRoE2Q5MZPt0ct1jRIAhQ8s0+DeWq2tPTC8qaLXAjCwjJs5Bfr2598TNQTakWF42@googlegroups.com
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:400e:b0:7ca:df98:2d7 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7d22988ff42mr2696880785a.25.1749549142934;
Tue, 10 Jun 2025 02:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 2002:a05:620a:135c:b0:7c5:50d5:7703 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7d39f0b1993ms85a;
Mon, 9 Jun 2025 19:28:26 -0700 (PDT)
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCUyl41OJFWGhYsuy5g8K2ya91CMVRVE/l6g8Wsupdf5lhGKCGcudAcIc9ZyYY5qIXwlPCsj0BhaAj31@googlegroups.com
X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:318a:b0:7ce:b7fc:6b6f with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7d2298ebd51mr1959589585a.58.1749522505727;
Mon, 09 Jun 2025 19:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1749522505; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=YBGdCi+6Mi/JXztoRGDaHEsj3cITveSnmRuoSPmxtSwnOpWoIvpzgYX1EeqNeesB/C
FcyRN+VixQJ+FC48x3vJezBU2F2HS/SWDYAqos3UsOdKLS2j3DkDZKQl1Ig91j5GhbUK
y40AoHd6/JJ5m0leMdUBtYmmvwdJu4DNtw/Hu+XwxJmuCdqQh74lXlX62OJ030e+2dkL
sdzXtAdTbXkFIDpSx5N/p/tJhbBdVUWj0+rm+v6gklqQEgiQTDf9LL4LJ1wkeHZYtci3
yb08C0Med9Xq2b+j5c3nrwX+kjS5NcJXvyw7TcFgEa6GWn8EFXwDoBtk2hBOLu7leyav
pWvQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references
:mime-version:dkim-signature;
bh=/MlYruwcih/S87hU/nIWjHwxFLMdlSm0dw07FRMpeL4=;
fh=MQBh0m02Rezbujly2YXztReGphlmi+ZmIww1OFPHr5A=;
b=O3lNc2fISfef7MXpAirmzeg8EY3TFiSx3r5h0ft3Ufc+XrwK4wYPBYIhrG3YtQ1XjX
la+yJtt79A/EEv+OpCd8D6JKqzRQBRNbaB6s7PIOvj5BFDVhjhhdXjlKEuUpHNRVZ4oY
AfhtZs7lU15nquMifsrIM6EAdFXFFqskQBk6IzG964lFUAFiXn43yGKjIr+RdOXVsecW
wQ0/zKl+GYdn+LhUjdcnUQDY/3I6KfXhg9sFmT1TkYxcZh5JcgzYzHwHBOVICEKR+iPo
FUx8O1og/V2YLkEToONUUSX7ZHjtzZTb8gn4jC9r1KbrelE/uusZDHD9TVsKTbhwoL1M
XaIA==;
dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=hiJEEAJO;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of melvincarvalho@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=melvincarvalho@gmail.com;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
Received: from mail-pj1-x102d.google.com (mail-pj1-x102d.google.com. [2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d])
by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 6a1803df08f44-6fb09b121e6si3959356d6.5.2025.06.09.19.28.25
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
Mon, 09 Jun 2025 19:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of melvincarvalho@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d;
Received: by mail-pj1-x102d.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-3122368d7c4so3928154a91.1
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>; Mon, 09 Jun 2025 19:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWWmIewX+wmmhVz7e13lsKQGN5SQ/XTIKi0o3IEL9fQOe+VegWxNuKg/64UuP2MqxHqCswtDRFg/v8j@googlegroups.com
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvS67kTUwOs3zxiDyyvixJGgXQpNPU3EnUXkylxtXAsF6oAmw3pB2xIrPCCa6n
6OLTB62szVBAagL2zHjKo4CTRYmFBM1UHK4KAUbs+Ck2daT5gnySaOkHkN0epIk+4e/1eUeAO8t
DpLE4/3ai34G+PkCeh+lVeqHcATQzmyx8GbK651ASAMg==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:4e8d:b0:311:d258:3473 with SMTP id
98e67ed59e1d1-313472fc4b5mr21183489a91.13.1749522504798; Mon, 09 Jun 2025
19:28:24 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <a86c2737-db79-4f54-9c1d-51beeb765163n@googlegroups.com> <aEdoIvOgNNtT6L4s@mail.wpsoftware.net>
In-Reply-To: <aEdoIvOgNNtT6L4s@mail.wpsoftware.net>
From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2025 04:28:11 +0200
X-Gm-Features: AX0GCFtiDilfhDJDq1ZTmgfQoP3wESNVLkQThBJ0KniQfLRTKG3q0ptvPa5EKf0
Message-ID: <CAKaEYh+tLtzaqAcN26RLw3AeNhF6VYvMdKrQY6dfCdhYg2Ad3w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] CTV + CSFS: a letter
To: Andrew Poelstra <apoelstra@wpsoftware.net>
Cc: "James O'Beirne" <james.obeirne@gmail.com>,
Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006cd79b06372e73a7"
X-Original-Sender: melvincarvalho@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass
header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=hiJEEAJO; spf=pass
(google.com: domain of melvincarvalho@gmail.com designates
2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=melvincarvalho@gmail.com;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
<https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/)
--0000000000006cd79b06372e73a7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C3=BAt 10. 6. 2025 v 1:11 odes=C3=ADlatel Andrew Poelstra <apoelstra@wpsof=
tware.net>
napsal:
> Le Mon, Jun 09, 2025 at 04:40:52AM -0700, James O'Beirne a =C3=A9crit :
> > Good morning,
> >
> > A letter has been published advocating for the final review and
> > activation of OP_CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY (BIP-119) and OP_CHECKSIGFROMSTACK
> > (BIP-348).
> >
> > The full text of the letter can be found at https://ctv-csfs.com. It is
> > reproduced below.
> >
>
> Hi all,
>
>
> James, thanks for posting the letter. Matt, Antoine -- thanks for
> replying quickly and respectfully even though you disagree with its
> contents. Let me try to clarify my stance and why I signed onto the
> letter.
>
> First, the specific choice of CTV + CSFS would not be my first choice
> on technical grounds. But what I'd like to see is something that is
> technically "good enough" to enable vaults and some new script usecases,
> while avoiding things that are politically toxic (which seems to be
> pretty-much everything, but maybe right now does not include CTV+CSFS?).
>
> So any arguments about CTV+CSFS on the technical merits I think are
> great and within the purview of "review and integration" that the letter
> talks about. (The word "final" I think is too strong and in retrospect
> I think we should've dropped it. But it's super difficult when writing
> these things to identify which specific points of language need to be
> changed.)
>
>
> Second, regarding the ultimatum language -- it was quite difficult to
> strike a balance between "Core consists of volunteers working on their
> on projects, with no obligation to anybody, and certainly no obligation
> to drive forward consensus changes" and "this is a letter that says
> nothing substantial at all".
>
> The message that I want to communicate is: Bitcoin Core, like many
> stakeholders, can veto any consensus changes because there will never be
> a large enough contigent of the Bitcoin community confident to rush in
> where angels dare to tread. But furthermore, if nobody in Core wants to
> engage at all with consensus changes, then the result is effectively the
> same as a veto.
>
> Therefore, if we want to see an increase in script expressivity, somebody
> on the Core team needs to help champion it. (There's no one in particular
> I imagine this "somebody" to be, and I suppose you could accuse me of
> hypocrisy since I'm not volunteering myself, even though I have the
> social and technical knowledge to help. It could be, and probably would
> have to be, somebody who isn't currently active on Core. But it needs to
> be somebody willing and able to work within the Core review process, to
> deal with ongoing rebases, etc.)
>
>
> Third, I really really hope that this letter does not lead to further
> brigading or twitter fights or whatever bleeding into the Github repo.
> (This is the one point where I think that my fellow cosigners agree with
> me fully.) But on the other hand, I don't think that I personally should
> shy away from discussion to mitigate that risk; it needs to be mitigated
> by more agressive moderation or by higher barriers to entry for people
> posting on Core PRs.
>
Andrew, would you agree with this premise?
Bitcoin changes must be demonstrably proven safe, needed, and wanted before
adoption. Proposers bear the burden, not the community. If the benefit
doesn't demonstrably outweigh the risk, the answer is simple: don't fork
the rules.
>
>
>
> Best
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew Poelstra
> Director, Blockstream Research
> Email: apoelstra at wpsoftware.net
> Web: https://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew
>
> The sun is always shining in space
> -Justin Lewis-Webster
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/aEdoIvOgNNtT6L4s%40mail.wpso=
ftware.net
> .
>
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
CAKaEYh%2BtLtzaqAcN26RLw3AeNhF6VYvMdKrQY6dfCdhYg2Ad3w%40mail.gmail.com.
--0000000000006cd79b06372e73a7
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote g=
mail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">=C3=BAt 10. 6. =
2025 v=C2=A01:11 odes=C3=ADlatel Andrew Poelstra <<a href=3D"mailto:apoe=
lstra@wpsoftware.net">apoelstra@wpsoftware.net</a>> napsal:<br></div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Le Mon, Jun 09, 2025 at 04:4=
0:52AM -0700, James O'Beirne a =C3=A9crit :<br>
> Good morning,<br>
> <br>
> A letter has been published advocating for the final review and<br>
> activation of OP_CHECKTEMPLATEVERIFY (BIP-119) and OP_CHECKSIGFROMSTAC=
K<br>
> (BIP-348). <br>
> <br>
> The full text of the letter can be found at <a href=3D"https://ctv-csf=
s.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://ctv-csfs.com</a>. It is=
<br>
> reproduced below.<br>
><br>
<br>
Hi all,<br>
<br>
<br>
James, thanks for posting the letter. Matt, Antoine -- thanks for<br>
replying quickly and respectfully even though you disagree with its<br>
contents. Let me try to clarify my stance and why I signed onto the<br>
letter.<br>
<br>
First, the specific choice of CTV + CSFS would not be my first choice<br>
on technical grounds. But what I'd like to see is something that is<br>
technically "good enough" to enable vaults and some new script us=
ecases,<br>
while avoiding things that are politically toxic (which seems to be<br>
pretty-much everything, but maybe right now does not include CTV+CSFS?).<br=
>
<br>
So any arguments about CTV+CSFS on the technical merits I think are<br>
great and within the purview of "review and integration" that the=
letter<br>
talks about. (The word "final" I think is too strong and in retro=
spect<br>
I think we should've dropped it. But it's super difficult when writ=
ing<br>
these things to identify which specific points of language need to be<br>
changed.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Second, regarding the ultimatum language -- it was quite difficult to<br>
strike a balance between "Core consists of volunteers working on their=
<br>
on projects, with no obligation to anybody, and certainly no obligation<br>
to drive forward consensus changes" and "this is a letter that sa=
ys<br>
nothing substantial at all".<br>
<br>
The message that I want to communicate is: Bitcoin Core, like many<br>
stakeholders, can veto any consensus changes because there will never be<br=
>
a large enough contigent of the Bitcoin community confident to rush in<br>
where angels dare to tread. But furthermore, if nobody in Core wants to<br>
engage at all with consensus changes, then the result is effectively the<br=
>
same as a veto.<br>
<br>
Therefore, if we want to see an increase in script expressivity, somebody<b=
r>
on the Core team needs to help champion it. (There's no one in particul=
ar<br>
I imagine this "somebody" to be, and I suppose you could accuse m=
e of<br>
hypocrisy since I'm not volunteering myself, even though I have the<br>
social and technical knowledge to help. It could be, and probably would<br>
have to be, somebody who isn't currently active on Core. But it needs t=
o<br>
be somebody willing and able to work within the Core review process, to<br>
deal with ongoing rebases, etc.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Third, I really really hope that this letter does not lead to further<br>
brigading or twitter fights or whatever bleeding into the Github repo.<br>
(This is the one point where I think that my fellow cosigners agree with<br=
>
me fully.) But on the other hand, I don't think that I personally shoul=
d<br>
shy away from discussion to mitigate that risk; it needs to be mitigated<br=
>
by more agressive moderation or by higher barriers to entry for people<br>
posting on Core PRs.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>And=
rew, would you agree with this premise?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Bitc=
oin changes must be demonstrably proven safe, needed, and wanted before ado=
ption.=C2=A0 Proposers bear the burden, not the community.=C2=A0 If the ben=
efit doesn't demonstrably outweigh the risk, the answer is simple: don&=
#39;t fork the rules.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Andrew Poelstra<br>
Director, Blockstream Research<br>
Email: apoelstra at <a href=3D"http://wpsoftware.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">wpsoftware.net</a><br>
Web:=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew</a><br>
<br>
The sun is always shining in space<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -Justin Lewis-Webster<br>
<br>
-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=
=3D"_blank">bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
bitcoindev/aEdoIvOgNNtT6L4s%40mail.wpsoftware.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/aEdoIvOgNNtT6L4s%=
40mail.wpsoftware.net</a>.<br>
</blockquote></div></div>
<p></p>
-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bitcoind=
ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
bitcoindev/CAKaEYh%2BtLtzaqAcN26RLw3AeNhF6VYvMdKrQY6dfCdhYg2Ad3w%40mail.gma=
il.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.com/d/=
msgid/bitcoindev/CAKaEYh%2BtLtzaqAcN26RLw3AeNhF6VYvMdKrQY6dfCdhYg2Ad3w%40ma=
il.gmail.com</a>.<br />
--0000000000006cd79b06372e73a7--
|