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From: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP70/71 issue, RFD
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To be more accurate, the embedded messages already have length prefixes :-)
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Andreas Schildbach
<andreas@schildbach.de>wrote:
> Just keep in mind that if it turns out we need to retrofit messages with
> length prefixes I fear we will have to restart with new mime-types. The
> nature of prefixes being always at the start means this rules out simply
> incrementing a protocol version number.
>
> Correcting myself:
>
> > it might be a good idea to apply this to all messages if any.
>
> Of course I only mean the "root" messages, namely PaymentRequest,
> Payment, and PaymentACK. The embedded messages don't need length prefixes.
>
>
> On 01/26/2014 11:00 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> > I think for "binding" the payment protocol to those transports we should
> > indeed use protobuf varint length prefixes. But it's unnecessary for all
> > cases. Unless Gavin feels it'd be better to be consistent everywhere and
> > is willing to change the spec and code - as far as I know though we're
> > trying to ship 0.9rc1 soonish .....
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Andreas Schildbach
> > <andreas@schildbach.de <mailto:andreas@schildbach.de>> wrote:
> >
> > Bluetooth, Wifi Direct, HTTP request/responses via broken proxies,
> smoke
> > signals... basically anything that is a stream rather than a file.
> >
> > Right, NFC NDEF and QR codes are not affected, so we can skip the
> > delimiter for these mediums.
> >
> >
> > On 01/26/2014 10:24 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
> > > Which medium is this an issue for? As you note, for files and HTTP
> > > responses it's not a problem in practice. i'd guess nor for NFC
> > tags nor
> > > QR codes.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:11 PM, Andreas Schildbach
> > > <andreas@schildbach.de <mailto:andreas@schildbach.de>
> > <mailto:andreas@schildbach.de <mailto:andreas@schildbach.de>>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm experimenting with BIP70/71 (payment protocol) usage in
> > face to face
> > > payments (more on that soon).
> > >
> > > I've excountered an issue with the protobuf format. Protobufs
> > are not
> > > self-delimiting. That means if you're reading from an
> undelimited
> > > stream, you will read endlessly because you don't know how
> > much to read.
> > >
> > > The current BIP70 implementations probably work because
> > they're reading
> > > either from a file or from an HTTP resource which sets the
> > > Content-Length header. Trouble is the Content-Length header is
> > optional,
> > > and also there are many kinds of streams that don't have this
> > built-in
> > > delimiting mechanism.
> > >
> > > The Java protobuf API solves this by offering delimited I/O,
> like
> > >
> > > payment.writeDelimitedTo(os);
> > >
> > > This writes the size of the message as a varint before writing
> > the data.
> > > I don't know about protobuf implementations for other
> > languages but I'd
> > > expect them to offer something compatible.
> > >
> > > However, this leading varint is an incompatible change and
> > would need to
> > > be added to the spec.
> > >
> > > I specifically encountered this with PaymentMessage and
> > PaymentACK, but
> > > it might be a good idea to apply this to all messages if any.
> > Open for
> > > discussion.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
> > > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
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> > <mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>>
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> > <mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
> > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
> > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
> > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
> >
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> > <mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
> > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
> > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
> > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
> >
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
>
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>
--001a11c30a04baab7404f0e7932b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">To be more accurate, the embedded messages already have le=
ngth prefixes :-)</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Andreas Schildbach <span dir=3D=
"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:andreas@schildbach.de" target=3D"_blank">andrea=
s@schildbach.de</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Just keep in mind that if it turns out we ne=
ed to retrofit messages with<br>
length prefixes I fear we will have to restart with new mime-types. The<br>
nature of prefixes being always at the start means this rules out simply<br=
>
incrementing a protocol version number.<br>
<br>
Correcting myself:<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
> it might be a good idea to apply this to all messages if any.<br>
<br>
</div>Of course I only mean the "root" messages, namely PaymentRe=
quest,<br>
Payment, and PaymentACK. The embedded messages don't need length prefix=
es.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
<br>
On 01/26/2014 11:00 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:<br>
> I think for "binding" the payment protocol to those transpor=
ts we should<br>
> indeed use protobuf varint length prefixes. But it's unnecessary f=
or all<br>
> cases. Unless Gavin feels it'd be better to be consistent everywhe=
re and<br>
> is willing to change the spec and code - as far as I know though we=
9;re<br>
> trying to ship 0.9rc1 soonish .....<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Andreas Schildbach<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">> <<a href=3D"mailto:andreas@schildbach.de">a=
ndreas@schildbach.de</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:andreas@schildbach.de=
">andreas@schildbach.de</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bluetooth, Wifi Direct, HTTP request/responses via broke=
n proxies, smoke<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 signals... basically anything that is a stream rather th=
an a file.<br>
><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Right, NFC NDEF and QR codes are not affected, so we can=
skip the<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 delimiter for these mediums.<br>
><br>
><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 On 01/26/2014 10:24 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Which medium is this an issue for? As you note, for=
files and HTTP<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > responses it's not a problem in practice. i'=
;d guess nor for NFC<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tags nor<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > QR codes.<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:11 PM, Andreas Schildbac=
h<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > <<a href=3D"mailto:andreas@schildbach.de">andrea=
s@schildbach.de</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:andreas@schildbach.de">and=
reas@schildbach.de</a>><br>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:andreas@schildbach.de">andreas@schildbach.de</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:andreas@schildbach.de">andreas@schildbach.de</a>>>> wrote:<br=
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I'm experimenting with BIP70/71 (=
payment protocol) usage in<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 face to face<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 payments (more on that soon).<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I've excountered an issue with th=
e protobuf format. Protobufs<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 are not<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 self-delimiting. That means if you=
9;re reading from an undelimited<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 stream, you will read endlessly becau=
se you don't know how<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 much to read.<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The current BIP70 implementations pro=
bably work because<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 they're reading<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 either from a file or from an HTTP re=
source which sets the<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Content-Length header. Trouble is the=
Content-Length header is<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 optional,<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and also there are many kinds of stre=
ams that don't have this<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 built-in<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 delimiting mechanism.<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The Java protobuf API solves this by =
offering delimited I/O, like<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 payment.writeDelimitedTo(os);<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This writes the size of the message a=
s a varint before writing<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the data.<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I don't know about protobuf imple=
mentations for other<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 languages but I'd<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 expect them to offer something compat=
ible.<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 However, this leading varint is an in=
compatible change and<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 would need to<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be added to the spec.<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I specifically encountered this with =
PaymentMessage and<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 PaymentACK, but<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it might be a good idea to apply this=
to all messages if any.<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Open for<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussion.<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --------------------------------------------------------=
----------------------<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Ente=
rprise Cloud Services.<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosin=
g CenturyLink Cloud For<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Critical Workloads, Development Envir=
onments & Everything In<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Between.<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Tod=
ay.<br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ><br>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=
=3D119420431&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.=
doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br=
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 _____________________________________=
__________<br>
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bitcoin-development" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/=
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><br>
><br>
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--------<br>
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r>
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velopment</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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