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Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2024 12:22:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: emsit <emsit@emsit.sk>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: The Future of Bitcoin Testnet
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I had to get involved because when I saw the pull request to reset=20
testnet3, I was horrified.
Resetting testnet3 without considering the impact after 13 years of use=20
seems like a very bad and drastic step. As you wrote, testnet3 has been=20
here for 13 years, it's not possible to kill it overnight.
It will require a transitional phase and announcement so that developers=20
have enough time to react. So the BTC client will have the option of both=
=20
testnet3 and testnet4.
Yes, mining is demanding, it's a pity it went so far... People won't want=
=20
to give up their testnet3 coins, including me!!!

How will new users earn testnet4? Will they launch a full node and buy an=
=20
ASIC miner? Faucets will stop working for a while, and most faucets will=20
cease to exist. As long as obtaining testnet coins is not easy and in=20
sufficient quantity, there will always be a small market. Or will it simply=
=20
deviate from the mainnet, and the reward be more generous? (I lean towards=
=20
this idea, to keep the block reward from decreasing and having an unlimited=
=20
amount, when there is a lot of it, it will not be rare and will not have=20
value. Or will it reset every year or two so it doesn't have enough time to=
=20
become valuable?)

D=C3=A1tum: nede=C4=BEa 31. marca 2024, =C4=8Das: 15:24:34 UTC+2, odosielat=
e=C4=BE: Jameson Lopp

> Hi all,
>
> I'd like to open a discussion about testnet3 to put out some feelers on=
=20
> potential changes to it. First, a few facts:
>
> 1. Testnet3 has been running for 13 years. It's on block 2.5 million=20
> something and the block reward is down to ~0.014 TBTC, so mining is not=
=20
> doing a great job at distributing testnet coins any more.
>
> 2. The reason the block height is insanely high is due to a rather amusin=
g=20
> edge case bug that causes the difficulty to regularly get reset to 1, whi=
ch=20
> causes a bit of havoc. If you want a deep dive into the quirk:=20
> https://blog.lopp.net/the-block-storms-of-bitcoins-testnet/
>
> 3. Testnet3 is being actively used for scammy airdrops; those of us who=
=20
> tend to be generous with our testnet coins are getting hounded by=20
> non-developers chasing cheap gains.
>
> 4. As a result, TBTC is being actively bought and sold; one could argue=
=20
> that the fundamental principle of testnet coins having no value has been=
=20
> broken.
>
> This leads me to ponder the following questions, for which I'm soliciting=
=20
> feedback.
>
> 1. Should we plan for a reset of testnet? If so, given how long it has=20
> been since the last reset and how many production systems will need to be=
=20
> updated, would a reset need to be done with a great deal of notice?
>
> 2. Is there interest in fixing the difficulty reset bug? It should be a=
=20
> one liner fix, and I'd argue it could be done sooner rather than later, a=
nd=20
> orthogonal to the network reset question. Would such a change, which woul=
d=20
> technically be a hard fork (but also arguably a self resolving fork due t=
o=20
> the difficulty dynamics) necessitate a BIP or could we just YOLO it?
>
> 3. Is all of the above a waste of time and we should instead deprecate=20
> testnet in favor of signet?
>
> - Jameson
>

--=20
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
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I had to get involved because when I saw the pull request to reset testnet3=
, I was horrified.<br />Resetting testnet3 without considering the impact a=
fter 13 years of use seems like a very bad and drastic step. As you wrote, =
testnet3 has been here for 13 years, it's not possible to kill it overnight=
.<br />It will require a transitional phase and announcement so that develo=
pers have enough time to react. So the BTC client will have the option of b=
oth testnet3 and testnet4.<br />Yes, mining is demanding, it's a pity it we=
nt so far... People won't want to give up their testnet3 coins, including m=
e!!!<br /><br />How will new users earn testnet4? Will they launch a full n=
ode and buy an ASIC miner? Faucets will stop working for a while, and most =
faucets will cease to exist. As long as obtaining testnet coins is not easy=
 and in sufficient quantity, there will always be a small market. Or will i=
t simply deviate from the mainnet, and the reward be more generous? (I lean=
 towards this idea, to keep the block reward from decreasing and having an =
unlimited amount, when there is a lot of it, it will not be rare and will n=
ot have value. Or will it reset every year or two so it doesn't have enough=
 time to become valuable?)<br /><br /><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_attr">D=C3=A1tum: nede=C4=BEa 31. marca 2024, =C4=
=8Das: 15:24:34 UTC+2, odosielate=C4=BE: Jameson Lopp<br/></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid=
 rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi all,<div><br><=
/div><div>I&#39;d like to open a discussion about testnet3 to put out some =
feelers on potential changes to it. First, a few facts:</div><div><br></div=
><div>1. Testnet3 has been running for 13 years. It&#39;s on block 2.5 mill=
ion something and the block reward is down to ~0.014 TBTC, so mining is not=
 doing a great job at distributing testnet coins any more.</div><div><br></=
div><div>2. The reason the block height is insanely high is due to a rather=
 amusing edge case bug that causes the difficulty to regularly get reset to=
 1, which causes a bit of havoc. If you want a deep dive into the quirk:=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"https://blog.lopp.net/the-block-storms-of-bitcoins-testnet/" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.goog=
le.com/url?hl=3Dsk&amp;q=3Dhttps://blog.lopp.net/the-block-storms-of-bitcoi=
ns-testnet/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1712084062208000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3=
H0V-o23dzzURLSQ1XaOm3">https://blog.lopp.net/the-block-storms-of-bitcoins-t=
estnet/</a></div><div><br></div><div>3. Testnet3 is being actively used for=
 scammy airdrops; those of us who tend to be generous with our testnet coin=
s are getting hounded by non-developers chasing cheap gains.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>4. As a result, TBTC is being actively bought and sold; one coul=
d argue that the fundamental principle of testnet=C2=A0coins having no valu=
e has been broken.</div><div><br></div><div>This leads me to ponder the fol=
lowing questions, for which I&#39;m soliciting feedback.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>1. Should we plan for a reset of testnet? If so, given how long it h=
as been since the last reset and how many production systems will need to b=
e updated, would a reset need to be done with a great deal of notice?</div>=
<div><br></div><div>2. Is there interest in fixing the difficulty reset bug=
? It should be a one liner fix, and I&#39;d argue it could be done sooner r=
ather than later, and orthogonal to the network reset question. Would such =
a change, which would technically be a hard fork (but also arguably a self =
resolving fork due to the difficulty dynamics) necessitate a BIP or could w=
e just YOLO it?</div><div><br></div><div>3. Is all of the above a waste of =
time and we should instead deprecate testnet in favor of signet?</div><div>=
<br></div><div>- Jameson</div></div>
</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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