1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
|
Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <adam@cypherspace.org>) id 1W5O3p-0003Mg-1v
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Mon, 20 Jan 2014 23:15:17 +0000
X-ACL-Warn:
Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.194])
by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
(Exim 4.76) id 1W5O3n-0005Ql-0C
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Mon, 20 Jan 2014 23:15:17 +0000
Received: from netbook (c107-70.i07-27.onvol.net [92.251.107.70])
by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis)
id 0LcRmI-1VeGQc2Sog-00js8d; Mon, 20 Jan 2014 18:14:48 -0500
Received: by netbook (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id 783D72E283E; Tue, 21 Jan 2014 00:14:44 +0100 (CET)
Received: by flare (hashcash-sendmail, from uid 1000);
Tue, 21 Jan 2014 00:14:41 +0100
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 00:14:41 +0100
From: Adam Back <adam@cypherspace.org>
To: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
Message-ID: <20140120231441.GA9332@netbook.cypherspace.org>
References: <CAJna-HjGHpru6Lpv_tXUkWR2mX-=fobzojtHYvSRJy6+CMesOA@mail.gmail.com>
<CANg-TZCrpT-YJ0WV9VY6w-PtCiz2YRMBCMvmjneDz13j2namkw@mail.gmail.com>
<20140120223502.GA1055@petertodd.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20140120223502.GA1055@petertodd.org>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Hashcash: 1:20:140120:pete@petertodd.org::hzEXguAegFJPr5V/:0000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000LKI7
X-Hashcash: 1:20:140120:boydb@midnightdesign.ws::amo9PGaiUq3BwfWn:00000000000000
0000000000000000000000000N1u
X-Hashcash: 1:20:140120:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net::P6mkFBglkEj9R
h5F:000000000000000000001hhh
X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:oWKv46fkUiYn/kCN9/MXS4trnXTmq5cP4l0zKEi8TY0
C6OiuPKSueKqnsDJfSe+U3RbRQSpNdEmH4L8adynraFJvPdnIo
nh1oMUmEojZ0v+od685SAG9iC0vxmyVwZwVRUNHgg5u/kkBeqp
RrruiyY6c51IJ2KiFhLIT4OvmKlkjHYomqjyhs6L6g6rVgucrY
9nzxYKeEHCbcxn3EX4iUl8edq80pi6rdKfd1tZqfvZ5HsO9G0u
x6ROvCyhTlgg8OSqee9p9nAV18olKiBwwNWIBGv1E2s+PQmsO4
vaqf96MUrICFcX35NXz0wXBkCJE6C+0OrIMl2KQGKrpOmDHHgI
ThvJ+Ah2NI9KukFkgvANGmTkD2Tc/GCKfmypEXwZf
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/,
no trust [74.208.4.194 listed in list.dnswl.org]
-0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record
X-Headers-End: 1W5O3n-0005Ql-0C
Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP0039: Final call
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 23:15:17 -0000
Because the mnemonic is an encoding of a 128-bit random number using its
hash as a private key (or derived part of one) is not a problem, its just an
alternate alphabet encoding of the random private key.
Not being able to generically understand the checksum. Seems tricky to
solve other than say brute force eg H(mnemonic||1) mod 2^k == 0 where k is
the amount of check digit redundancy. But that might be expensive for a
trezor if k is very big at all. And then key = H(mnemonic).
Adam
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 05:35:02PM -0500, Peter Todd wrote:
>On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 04:05:14PM -0600, Brooks Boyd wrote:
>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 11:42 AM, slush <slush@centrum.cz> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > during recent months we've reconsidered all comments which we received
>> > from the community about our BIP39 proposal and we tried to meet all
>> > requirements for such standard. Specifically the proposal now doesn't
>> > require any specific wordlist, so every client can use its very own list of
>> > preferred words. Generated mnemonic can be then applied to any other
>> > BIP39-compatible client. Please follow current draft at
>> > https://github.com/trezor/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki.
>>
>> So, because the [mnemonic]->[bip32 root] is just hashing, you've
>> effectively made your "mnemonic sentence" into a brainwallet? Since every
>> mnemonic sentence can now lead to a bip32 root, and only the client that
>> created the mnemonic can verify the mnemonic passes its checksum (assuming
>> all clients use different wordlists, the only client that can help you if
>> you fat-finger the sentence is the client that created it)?
>
>That issue is more than enough to get a NACK from me on making the
>current BIP39 draft a standard - I can easily see that leading to users
>losing a lot of money.
>
>Have any wallets implemented BIP39 this way already in released code?
>
>--
>'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
>00000000000000009c3092c0b245722363df8b29cfbb86368f4f7303e655983a
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
>Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
>Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
>Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
>http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>_______________________________________________
>Bitcoin-development mailing list
>Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
|
