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To: Marek Palatinus <marek@palatinus.cz>
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From: Mustafa Al-Bassam <mus@musalbas.com>
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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:09:33 +0100
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] AsicBoost
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It will prevent companies from legally selling mining rigs with the
improvement, which stems access to the improvement in patented
countries. Or miners can export rigs with the improvement from companies
that sell it in non-patented countries.
It is not purely a software thing - it is intended to be used by
modifying hardware. From the paper: "The performance gain is achieved
through a high-=C2=ADlevel optimization of the Bitcoin mining algorithm w=
hich
allows for drastic reduction in gate count on the mining chip. AsicBoost
is applicable to all types of mining hardware and chip designs."
Ultimately though, I think you're right in that Bitcoin's mining and
decentralized design combined with an international economy makes
patenting mining algorithms effectively pointless.
Mustafa
On 06/04/16 12:57, Marek Palatinus wrote:
> To my understanding it is purely software thing. It cannot be detected
> from outside if miner uses this improvement or not. So patenting it is
> worthless.
>
> slush
>
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 1:01 AM, Mustafa Al-Bassam via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>
> Alternatively scenario: it will cause a sudden increase of Bitcoin
> mines in countries where the algorithm is not patented, possibly
> causing a geographical decentralization of miners from countries
> that already have a lot of miners like China (if it is patented in
> China).
>
> On 01/04/16 10:00, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 09:41:40PM -0700, Timo Hanke via bitcoin-d=
ev wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> I'd like to announce a white paper that describes a very new and
>>> significant algorithmic improvement to the Bitcoin mining process=
which has
>>> never been discussed in public before. The white paper can be fou=
nd here:
>>>
>>> http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/~Timo.Hanke/AsicBoostWhitepaperrev=
5.pdf
>>> <http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/%7ETimo.Hanke/AsicBoostWhitepaper=
rev5.pdf>
>> What steps are you going to take to make sure that this improvemen=
t is
>> available to all ASIC designers/mfgs on a equal opportunity basis?=
>>
>> The fact that you've chosen to patent this improvement could be a
>> centralization concern depending on the licensing model used. For =
example, one
>> could imagine a licensing model that gave one manufacture exclusiv=
e rights.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
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It will prevent companies from legally selling mining rigs with the
improvement, which stems access to the improvement in patented
countries. Or miners can export rigs with the improvement from
companies that sell it in non-patented countries.<br>
<br>
It is not purely a software thing - it is intended to be used by
modifying hardware. From the paper: "The performance gain is
achieved through a high-level optimization of the Bitcoin mining
algorithm which allows for drastic reduction in gate count on the
mining chip. AsicBoost is applicable to all types of mining hardware
and chip designs."<br>
<br>
Ultimately though, I think you're right in that Bitcoin's mining and
decentralized design combined with an international economy makes
patenting mining algorithms effectively pointless.<br>
<br>
Mustafa<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/04/16 12:57, Marek Palatinus
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJna-Hjx2e-ztyoieVi=MszXwW=Vdt+8NFyCMEdEH+jydoWKPw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">To my understanding it is purely software thing. It
cannot be detected from outside if miner uses this improvement
or not. So patenting it is worthless.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>slush</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 1:01 AM, Mustafa
Al-Bassam via bitcoin-dev <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Alternatively
scenario: it will cause a sudden increase of Bitcoin mines
in countries where the algorithm is not patented, possibly
causing a geographical decentralization of miners from
countries that already have a lot of miners like China (if
it is patented in China).<span class=""><br>
<br>
<div>On 01/04/16 10:00, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
wrote:<br>
</div>
</span>
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="">
<pre>On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 09:41:40PM -0700, Timo Hanke via bitcoin-dev wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Hi.
I'd like to announce a white paper that describes a very new and
significant algorithmic improvement to the Bitcoin mining process which has
never been discussed in public before. The white paper can be found here:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/%7ETimo.Hanke/AsicBoostWhitepaperrev5.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/~Timo.Hanke/AsicBoostWhitepaperrev5.pdf</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>What steps are you going to take to make sure that this improvement is
available to all ASIC designers/mfgs on a equal opportunity basis?
The fact that you've chosen to patent this improvement could be a
centralization concern depending on the licensing model used. For example, one
could imagine a licensing model that gave one manufacture exclusive rights.
</pre>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
</span>
<pre>_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target="_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
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<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
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